16.346875 21.546875 Well, hello there, Dawn Grieco.
21.546875 22.546875 Hi.
22.546875 23.546875 She's here.
23.546875 24.546875 Happy to be here.
24.546875 25.546875 Yes.
25.546875 26.546875 And good morning, Mary Beth.
26.546875 27.546875 Good morning.
27.546875 33.146875 And good morning to you, listeners, wherever-- I should say, wherever, whenever.
33.146875 35.386875 You might be listening to us.
35.386875 41.626875 We are so grateful to have our friend, Dawn Grieco, with us this morning.
41.626875 47.386875 And she is going to be sharing some really interesting stuff with us.
47.386875 52.626875 How God is using her in a place that might be a little bit unexpected.
52.626875 56.386875 But before we get into that, let's talk about how we know Dawn.
56.386875 57.386875 Who is this Dawn Grieco?
57.386875 60.186875 Grieco is this Dawn Grieco we speak of.
60.186875 68.666875 So it will come as a shock to no one that I met her at Willowdale Chapel.
68.666875 72.106875 Such a deep well of guests there, certainly are.
72.106875 75.946875 And I actually just a little bit of a story about that, isn't there, Dawn?
75.946875 76.946875 Yeah, yeah, definitely.
76.946875 80.826875 Definitely because I knew your husband before I knew you.
80.826875 83.866875 You knew my husband before I knew my husband.
83.866875 84.866875 Yes, yes.
84.866875 88.626875 In fact, prayed for you without knowing your name.
88.626875 89.626875 Yeah, we did.
89.626875 91.866875 We served in children's ministry together.
91.866875 92.866875 Yeah.
92.866875 93.866875 That's amazing.
93.866875 100.466875 But no, if I ever knew that you prayed for me before you knew my name, I prayed for someone
100.466875 105.386875 like you and didn't know your name, meaning praying for a wife for Joe was definitely something
105.386875 108.106875 that we prayed for him for a while.
108.106875 109.106875 That's amazing.
109.106875 110.586875 Oh, I love that story.
110.586875 111.586875 My goodness.
111.586875 112.586875 Okay.
112.586875 113.586875 We haven't even started it.
113.586875 116.346875 I'm already emotional.
116.346875 122.586875 So how many years ago was that that you first met the two of you, Dawn and Sarah?
122.586875 124.946875 It would be a little over nine years ago.
124.946875 125.946875 Yeah.
125.946875 128.946875 Good, good, good that you know, because I don't, it's all, no, sometimes.
128.946875 132.506875 Yeah, no, it's okay, because I moved, I moved here almost nine years ago.
132.506875 136.346875 We bought the house actually nine years ago.
136.346875 142.706875 And so I had started attending Willowdale, off and on before I moved.
142.706875 144.546875 So I would have met you in that time.
144.546875 145.546875 Yeah.
145.546875 147.546875 So, so good.
147.546875 148.546875 Definitely good.
148.546875 149.546875 Yeah.
149.546875 154.546875 Mary Beth, you met Dawn probably through moms and prayer.
154.546875 155.546875 Yeah.
155.546875 156.546875 Yeah, only a couple of years ago.
156.546875 157.546875 Yeah.
157.546875 158.546875 Yeah.
158.546875 159.546875 Yeah.
159.546875 160.546875 So, cause Dawn's not at Willowdale anymore.
160.546875 161.546875 She's at a different church now.
161.546875 162.546875 So I didn't have the pleasure of meeting you there.
162.546875 169.146875 But the things I love about Dawn are you have this like infectious energy.
169.146875 172.746875 And every time I feel like we meet for prayer, we talk about what's going on with our kids.
172.746875 176.946875 I always leave a conversation with you with like, oh, things are going to be okay.
176.946875 179.426875 Like there's a hope.
179.426875 180.946875 There's a future.
180.946875 181.946875 We're in it.
181.946875 182.946875 Yeah.
182.946875 183.946875 So I really appreciate all that.
183.946875 184.946875 Yes.
184.946875 185.946875 Yeah.
185.946875 191.626875 You're definitely this amazing force of hope and goodness in the world that I know is powered
191.626875 193.146875 by a full surrender to God.
193.146875 195.306875 I mean, he's done his work in your life.
195.306875 204.926875 But anyway, okay, like we get we get ahead of ourselves. you are involved in prison
204.926875 205.926875 ministry.
205.926875 206.926875 Oh, yes.
206.926875 207.926875 I am.
207.926875 213.526875 And that I don't even really know how to explain or where to start.
213.526875 220.526875 So I think I'm going to let you tell us tell us a little bit about your background and
220.526875 225.606875 kind of how you found yourself in this ministry and yeah, feel free to introduce yourself
225.606875 227.806875 to the listeners, whatever you'd like to say.
227.806875 232.246875 Right before we started recording, we were saying, you don't just wake up one day and find
232.246875 233.846875 yourself involved in prison ministry.
233.846875 235.646875 There's got to be a backstory there.
235.646875 236.646875 Yes.
236.646875 237.646875 Yes.
237.646875 240.126875 How did it come that I call the prison my people?
240.126875 241.126875 Yeah.
241.126875 242.446875 That was definitely a journey.
242.446875 248.926875 I would say that the story probably begins in my own walk with the Lord and coming upon
248.926875 250.926875 the ministry of celebrate-recovery.
250.926875 255.606875 And I know that you all have had other folks on your podcast.
255.606875 259.606875 So the listeners might know a little bit about celebrate-recovery, but basically it's a Christian
259.606875 267.166875 12 step program and I just I guess I've been a part of that for the last 15 years.
267.166875 271.006875 And I've met different people along the way and a family and a small group of mine in that
271.006875 279.246875 season had an adopted son and he got into some trouble and found himself at Chester County
279.246875 280.246875 prison.
280.246875 283.806875 And that was around 2016.
283.806875 289.086875 And I live only a few miles from Chester County prison in fact.
289.086875 293.366875 And I remember taking a really long prayer walk around the perimeter of the prison grounds.
293.366875 299.146875 And that day my heart was broken and softened for the troubles that plagued the folks who
299.146875 302.606875 were inside of that place.
302.606875 307.086875 And the irony wasn't lost to me that this was only a few miles from my comfortable middle
307.086875 312.326875 class suburban home that I had once asked God, well do you want me to leave because I got
312.326875 314.646875 to this house with bad motives.
314.646875 320.286875 Do you want me to leave this area or somewhere else you want me to go and and clear as day, not
320.286875 325.766875 with audible words, but he was like, no, no, this, this neighborhood is your mission field.
325.766875 330.286875 And I was like, oh no, no, no, I don't, I don't know what you mean.
330.286875 333.086875 I don't want to go tell my neighbors about Jesus.
333.086875 338.166875 And that kind of came full circle when I realized I was three miles from the prison and that's
338.166875 340.886875 what he meant by my neighborhood.
340.886875 341.886875 Wow.
341.886875 342.886875 Yeah.
342.886875 347.086875 So, I mean, I couldn't tell you a word.
347.086875 348.286875 I prayed that day.
348.286875 357.566875 I can just remember this desperate feeling of hopelessness for my friend's son.
357.566875 358.886875 And she would have struggles with him.
358.886875 365.286875 She had not walked a journey with much of a dysfunctional home life or an upbringing.
365.286875 368.286875 Like, her life was up and to the right for the most part.
368.286875 371.086875 And she had always known the Lord.
371.086875 375.086875 And I had this connection with her son like I could go toe to toe with him.
375.086875 380.286875 I understood how he thought. the way I like to say it is, I'm only a little bit removed
380.286875 382.606875 from all those lies that used to entangle me.
382.606875 388.446875 And so when someone else is trapped in thought life, that's like toxic, like I get that.
388.446875 391.646875 I know that the first natural thought of if someone doesn't answer a phone, they're avoiding
391.646875 396.206875 your phone call, not they were doing the laundry and didn't hear it.
396.206875 401.206875 And so she really would struggle with connecting with him in that season and she'd miss phone
401.206875 402.206875 calls.
402.206875 403.686875 And it would break down trust.
403.686875 406.246875 And I went, well, let me go talk to him.
406.246875 412.086875 So he put me on the visitor log and I started visiting him every Tuesday.
412.086875 414.206875 And I just would talk to him.
414.206875 420.926875 And I felt like I understood him and he understood me and it was, it was impactful little visits.
420.926875 422.606875 And things grew from there.
422.606875 429.446875 My friend Heidi had the vision of what God was calling me to well before I did.
429.446875 432.846875 Like, I was like, no, what are you talking about prison ministry?
432.846875 435.526875 I was like, that's not, I'm supposed to teach this Bible study.
435.526875 437.606875 That's what God told me to do.
437.606875 444.166875 And having had my own past that has, you know, some struggles, I mean, God has broken
444.166875 450.446875 chains of abuse, abortion, suicide, depression, anxiety, estrangement, addiction, assault.
450.446875 457.046875 Like you name it all the unmentionables, like I those have touched my life and I was really
457.046875 461.926875 clear on needing to do a Bible study that was helping women who have experienced abuse
461.926875 463.166875 and abortion.
463.166875 473.926875 And she was like, dawn, I don't know, but I think maybe, just maybe the women inside could
473.926875 476.526875 benefit from that Bible study.
476.526875 482.006875 And that was a lightbulb moment for me because I had never once thought by chance that that
482.006875 486.006875 is where and that those are some of the struggles that the women inside would have.
486.006875 490.206875 And it was mind blowing to me that I was in that much denial to realizing that that
490.206875 495.846875 would be a effective place to minister to some of the hurts and habits and hangups that
495.846875 499.966875 the Lord had already delivered me from and is continuing to deliver me from.
499.966875 504.846875 Well, what you're saying is you weren't seeking this out necessarily.
504.846875 505.846875 Not at all.
505.846875 511.486875 But she would say I Jonahed that calling for a while and I didn't even know I was doing it,
511.486875 513.206875 which makes it even funnier.
513.206875 516.926875 But in seeking the Lord, you know, that's where he led you.
516.926875 518.366875 Oh, and it was clear.
518.366875 522.646875 Well, let me tell you it was clear because I did a little bit of, now this is going to
522.646875 528.006875 be a little Bible story throw, but like, Gideon and the fleece, I did some fleeces.
528.006875 535.126875 I was like, you're going to have to make it really clear, Lord, if you want me to do this.
535.126875 542.006875 And the next day an email came in about, it was June 1st and I would get an annual email.
542.006875 547.646875 And it was clear as day, it may have been May 1st and June 1st, two news letters in a row
547.646875 549.286875 on the 1st of the month.
549.286875 554.206875 The first time was about prison ministry and church plants.
554.206875 556.446875 And I was in a church plan in that season.
556.446875 565.846875 And the next time was prison ministry and maybe post-abort of Bible studies.
565.846875 569.966875 And it was clear as day to me, I had said, make it clear and he made it.
569.966875 574.726875 So clear within 24 hours, there was an email in my inbox telling me about this Bible study
574.726875 579.726875 going into a prison from the Healing Arts International's newsletters.
579.726875 581.926875 And I was like, okay, I hear you, wow.
581.926875 587.726875 I hear you, just mercy had come out and someone had handed me that book to read.
587.726875 592.846875 There were so many things that were all just congealing that like, I needed to be very
592.846875 598.986875 clearly told because I just, if it's not my idea, like I get scared of ideas that aren't
598.986875 599.986875 my own.
599.986875 602.486875 And that's why I knew it was from God because I was kind of scared of that idea and I'm never
602.486875 604.926875 scared of my own ideas.
604.926875 609.766875 And so yeah, with a lot of encouragement from Heidi, we kept pursuing going in the prison
609.766875 615.446875 met with the chaplain and started teaching celebrate recovery inside actually.
615.446875 617.526875 Wow.
617.526875 622.926875 It strikes me that you were scared.
622.926875 629.606875 And I want you to hear that listeners that sometimes we do get scared.
629.606875 634.926875 And God calls us to things that can be very scary.
634.926875 639.606875 I remember even in the beginning of this podcast, well, even to this day, I'm still
639.606875 642.966875 scared because what if I have to say things that aren't comfortable?
642.966875 647.166875 What if I have to tell people that like I, but I trust God, right?
647.166875 653.966875 And so you trusted God and not only did he make it so abundantly clear that this is what
653.966875 660.606875 you're supposed to do, but he has paved the way for you and made this something that's
660.606875 663.326875 become a joy for you and a blessing.
663.326875 671.246875 100%. I remember standing in line, getting ready to check in or whatever it was for probably
671.246875 674.486875 one of my first times visiting my friend's son.
674.486875 681.566875 And I just looked and just sat there praying, going, Lord, if this, if walking into this darkness
681.566875 687.406875 is going to hinder my ability to be the best wife and mother and make me relapse or go
687.406875 693.926875 backwards at all in my own recovery, then close the door.
693.926875 700.526875 Close the door because I can't do, I can't jeopardize how far you've brought me by something
700.526875 706.686875 that might not be of you or is me like, I didn't want any codependent motives or any ill
706.686875 713.486875 aligned, like I'm going to go be some hero complex, getting in the way of what I was supposed
713.486875 718.566875 to do and not supposed to do. And I would come home every Tuesday and when I would do high
718.566875 725.446875 low, with my kids at the dinner table, and as clear as day, it was always the best part of my day
725.446875 729.886875 was the days I went to the prison. And then they would blow my kids minds because they're
729.886875 734.326875 like, your best part was going to the prison? I don't tell anyone that you go to
734.326875 738.166875 the prison. Is that okay? That is quite okay.
738.166875 744.486875 There might be some mixed messages going, my mom goes to prison once a week. Yes, yes,
744.486875 750.666875 yes. But it was, it was the best part of my day and I leave more filled than depleted
750.666875 757.046875 every time and every time. And I think that's further confirmation that this is where
757.046875 763.286875 God has you and it's what you're supposed to be doing. I also just want to go back to
763.286875 772.846875 a point you made. You said, I prayed that God would tell me right away. If this is going
772.846875 780.646875 to jeopardize my recovery, the work that he's doing in my life, or my first calling as a
780.646875 789.726875 wife and a mother, that's, yeah. And boy, I think we've all seen people that have had
789.726875 796.246875 a call, but at the expense of their family. And I don't think our good father wants that.
796.246875 800.546875 I'm not here to condemn or past judgment at all. I just think that if we are being called
800.546875 808.486875 to something, we need to be, okay, preaching to myself right here now. Am I giving my family
808.486875 813.766875 my role as a mother and a wife the same attention that I give my other things that I'm called
813.766875 821.366875 to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think in putting that into perspective right where in 2026, the
821.366875 827.086875 visits I would do with first going to the prison to visit my friend's son, that was in 2016.
827.086875 835.686875 So that was 10 years ago. This began and it was slow and it was baby steps. And I, my second,
835.686875 839.446875 I have three children and my second one is headed off to college. And so I just see the
839.446875 846.286875 Lord having been prepared me for what it would look like here at the end of what motherhood
846.286875 856.126875 for in the nest every day grinding. It's been a 10 year step by step process of getting
856.126875 865.086875 more involved, balancing what it looked like to only do an hour to volunteering a week to
865.086875 872.286875 now stepping into a little bit more time commitment, but the bandwidth is there, whereas I will
872.286875 877.966875 only have one one kid, a one high school kiddo who'll be able to drive himself places, come
877.966875 885.206875 the fall. Wow. That's going to be a whole new world. Can you talk a little bit more about
885.206875 890.326875 what it really does look like? People hear this concept of doing prison ministry and they
890.326875 894.726875 might have a hard time visualizing what that is. So you mentioned a few Bible studies. You
894.726875 899.886875 mentioned Celebrate recovery. Can you kind of walk us through what, what is it actually? What
899.886875 905.326875 are you actually doing? Yeah. It's not Johnny Cash singing songs. No. Okay. No. It's not
905.326875 909.966875 even, it's not even the Instagram reels you'll see of where famous people are going
909.966875 915.326875 and singing songs or preaching sermons like this. Chester County prison is actually a local
915.326875 919.606875 jail. It may use the word prison in its name, but it operates like a local jail, which
919.606875 925.726875 is a lot more churn as the best word I can say. Like in and out, like you're there for short
925.726875 930.766875 sentences, you're not there because you got multiple years, usually no one is there for
930.766875 936.566875 sentences over 23 months. So that like keeps it to two years and under. And so there's a lot
936.566875 942.166875 of short term stays. So the way you approach ministry in a jail is quite different than
942.166875 946.326875 the way you would in a federal prison where people have life sentences, for example. Yeah.
946.326875 954.086875 And so what we do is I am part of a prison ministry team called new mornings. And I had independently
954.086875 958.766875 brought in Celebrate recovery, but then was like, I really would like to be under a group
958.766875 965.566875 that serves in a greater and a wider capacity, especially post COVID. That was a shift we made.
965.566875 973.326875 Like, I don't need to be flying solo. Anyway, inside it looks like many different ways.
973.326875 978.886875 We can have one of ones where we meet one and one and sit across a table and just chat
978.886875 984.246875 with a woman, hear her story, encourage her that can take on a lot of different forms.
984.246875 988.846875 Maybe we go over a Bible passage together or we're just there as a listening year. So one
988.846875 994.606875 on ones is a component. Another component is small groups like we do discovery Bible groups,
994.606875 999.726875 which are we'll just take a little passage and we will meet with a few women, usually
999.726875 1004.446875 in the work release center, which is a place where they get released to in a staged approach
1004.446875 1010.926875 towards reentry. And that usually only has less than 10 people there and a subset of them
1010.926875 1015.646875 will come down for that program. So they they volunteer and they choose to come to programs
1015.646875 1022.526875 when we come. And then my specialty or the area I prefer to serve in is our large group.
1022.526875 1028.766875 So this is more like a chapel service. And this is large group teaching where I am doing
1028.766875 1034.766875 most of the teaching. It'll be interactive at points where we'll engage the women that come
1034.766875 1042.606875 down. And that's anywhere from like eight to 10 to 25 women at one time in the large chapel.
1042.606875 1048.926875 So basically when we think of women and volunteers or women or men that come and want to volunteer
1048.926875 1056.366875 and do prison ministry, where does your gifting and your comfort zone align with the calling?
1056.366875 1060.046875 Because not everyone's called to prison ministry. So the first thing that we look for in
1060.046875 1064.126875 volunteers like, oh, this has been you've been called to this. Like this is not just
1064.126875 1070.446875 you're not coming because your son went to prison and you want to see him. You know, but like
1070.446875 1077.406875 you have a heart that wants to pour into the women and men behind bars. Well, do you like large
1077.406875 1081.566875 group? Do you like small group? Are you a one-on-one person? Because there's a place for anyone's
1082.446875 1089.566875 gifting and how they like to do ministry within our whole prison ministry team. Does that make sense?
1089.566875 1094.526875 Yeah, it makes sense. And I think it sounds like over time it's really developed into something that's
1094.526875 1100.766875 more people are able to participate in. Correct, correct. Because the last thing you want to do
1100.766875 1107.166875 is be intimidated talking in front of a group of 25 women in the chapel if that's not part of your,
1107.166875 1111.966875 like if teaching isn't a gift of yours. But if you are an amazing listener and have
1111.966875 1117.486875 gifts of mercy and compassion, sitting in on a one-on-one is exactly where your sweet spot would be
1117.486875 1123.646875 in meeting a woman where they're at. And we also do reentry, right? So there's these relationships
1123.646875 1129.886875 get formed and then the ability to walk with a woman once they are released becomes another part
1129.886875 1136.126875 of the journey where friendship or rides or support and encouragement are connecting to resources
1136.126875 1143.166875 for employment or other areas is also something that we try to do. Now I'll speak very specifically
1143.166875 1150.846875 about ministering to women because that's where I am. But this over-recovery program we have
1150.846875 1155.406875 a men's team and a women's team. And so the men are doing the same things. I just always speak from
1155.406875 1162.766875 the women's perspective because that's what I do. Yeah, that makes sense. Is the age of Chester County,
1162.766875 1169.966875 is it just 18 and up? Or do you have younger? Very good question, Mary Beth. So if you're familiar
1169.966875 1176.686875 with Chester County Prison, which is in West Chester proper at mailing address and in the
1176.686875 1182.846875 Pocopson Township area, they have actually three buildings on site of the complex. One is the
1182.846875 1188.766875 WorkRelease Center that you just heard me mention. The other is the main prison, you know, the large
1188.766875 1195.006875 long established. And then a third building on that complex is actually the youth detention center.
1195.006875 1200.126875 Okay. So we do not currently go into the youth detention center. There are other programs and other
1200.126875 1206.286875 supports, but our group in particular does not. And that would house anyone under 18.
1206.286875 1212.926875 Yep, my only familiarity with prison ministry, my church growing up did a lot with our YDC
1212.926875 1220.606875 Center. Yes, my home town. And this leads me to my next question, which was where I grew up, they,
1220.606875 1228.446875 the prison system and the county welcomed wholeheartedly anyone into the prison that wanted to
1228.446875 1236.206875 minister mentor serve. Has that been your experience? Or do they want more people to come in and
1236.206875 1244.126875 help in this capacity? Or what's that reception been like? So I would say very receptive to supports,
1244.126875 1250.526875 not my work is within a ministry that is that falls under the chaplaincy, right? So a religious
1250.526875 1259.326875 volunteer by title, they're always taking applications for people that want to serve, placing and
1259.326875 1267.966875 finding the fit is another thing. Yeah. I would say Chester County in particular is discerning in
1267.966875 1275.326875 allowing ex-offenders to come back in like there's a lot of boundaries over if you have someone
1275.326875 1280.286875 that's currently in the prison and you're related to them, you're probably not going to get approved.
1280.286875 1284.526875 Yeah. You know, like if my kid went to jail and I was like, I want to do prison ministry,
1285.326875 1290.286875 there would be a conflict of interest. So they would, they sort through that. So that's definitely
1290.286875 1295.966875 from a safety and a mode of perspective, probably always evaluated. And you know, they run
1295.966875 1301.806875 background checks, I think, on everyone. I'm not part of the process of what happens behind the scenes,
1301.806875 1311.486875 but as far as volunteers, a heart to serve these women and men and no other real restrictions
1311.486875 1319.086875 if there's nothing obvious. You mentioned this a minute ago and we do want to get some more
1319.086875 1323.806875 information on this. You mentioned reentry and helping the women that you're serving, you know,
1323.806875 1329.646875 after they are released, re-entering society, community, finding work, all of these things,
1329.646875 1338.846875 give us some context for that. What does this look like? How does reentry work for them? What's
1338.846875 1341.966875 the success rate? Do you have any information you can share on that?
1341.966875 1349.326875 Localized data, I don't really have. What I can say is currently we have about 700 people
1349.326875 1356.846875 at Chester County Prison. 25% of them or about 175 are women. And what I can say is that
1356.846875 1366.606875 the reentry paths are quite different when you consider women as opposed to men. There was a survey
1366.606875 1372.366875 back in, a lot of research done back in 2003, which feels like ancient now. But Blumowen and
1372.366875 1380.206875 Covington released research on practices and guiding what considerations and principles needed to
1380.206875 1386.846875 be factored for women offenders and how to meet them. They had different pathways into the system
1386.846875 1392.446875 of incarceration. They had different program needs. They had different outcomes. And a lot of that
1392.446875 1398.846875 research just basically highlighted the need for gender responsive programming and gender responsive
1398.846875 1404.286875 approaches to the criminal justice system and how it works. I could talk forever about
1404.286875 1415.086875 the ways in which women became increasingly included in the offender population. Like in the numbers,
1415.086875 1426.926875 like for example, there was a 22% increase between 2011 and 2021 in women held in local jails,
1426.926875 1433.406875 like a just a large increase. That's a huge increase. And they support data on minority women
1433.406875 1439.326875 having a higher rate of imprisonment. And the unfortunate piece that speaks to the reentry that
1439.326875 1447.246875 you were speaking about, Mary Beth is like, this is not local data on Chester County, but 58% of the
1447.246875 1455.886875 women that are in prison and 80% of the women in jail have minor children, like two or more kids at
1455.886875 1464.446875 home while they are gone. And that has caused just a huge ripple effect in the impact of family,
1464.446875 1471.166875 which is what makes the call to prison ministry a larger net than what seems to be. Like I have
1471.166875 1477.086875 longed to have a day where I could sit in front of, let's say Willowdale Chapel or somewhere. And just
1477.086875 1485.646875 in the front of the room, ask everyone if they know someone who has been or has been impacted
1485.646875 1490.846875 by the incarceration to stand up. You would be surprised by the number of people that would stand
1490.846875 1496.046875 up because people don't talk about it. And that's probably where my work in Celebrate Recovery and
1496.046875 1500.286875 talking about like the unmentioned rules and the things that I had experienced with that people
1500.286875 1505.246875 don't talk about. People don't talk about someone they know being in prison. Like there's a lot of
1505.246875 1515.006875 shame and stigma around that, especially in Chester County, one of the wealthiest counties in the
1515.006875 1521.726875 state. People don't talk about prison that much. Well, I have a question. Is there reasons or data
1521.726875 1529.086875 given for that 22% increase in female incarceration over that 10 year period? Is there data on what
1529.086875 1535.566875 types of crimes these are? Like why? Like what caused that increase? I don't have data, but I can say
1535.566875 1544.926875 anecdotally, the offenses and the charges related to drug use and alcohol use.
1545.886875 1556.926875 Have captured tons more women. If you're looking at women, you can like researchers have documented
1556.926875 1561.326875 differences in the family histories. There is dysfunction, there's substance abuse, co-occurring
1561.326875 1569.166875 disorders, there's victimization. Like that skyrockets your correlation to having criminal justice
1569.166875 1575.886875 involvement. And if you add in a history of sexual abuse or trauma, like they are overrepresented.
1575.886875 1582.686875 And that's something where like, so one statistic that's common is like in any room that you could
1582.686875 1591.566875 sit in one in four women have experienced sexual abuse and one in six men. In any room, in any time,
1591.566875 1598.606875 that is usually a statistical fact. It's probably triple or quadruple that if I'm sitting and I did
1598.606875 1603.646875 this once in the prison, I was like, look, I know the stats and I said to them right now we have 16 people
1603.646875 1609.406875 in there. That means at least four of you and I already just told you about my history. So I'm one
1609.406875 1614.846875 of them. That means there's three more of you in this room that have that this is touched. And I know
1614.846875 1618.606875 that's not true. I know the numbers are way higher in this room. And so I know that I have a captive
1618.606875 1624.126875 audience of people that aren't speaking about things that have walking with traumas. They're walking
1624.126875 1630.126875 with complex griefs. They're walking with hurts that they don't talk about. And as that led to
1630.126875 1638.126875 using drugs to cope, as that led to alcoholism or DUIs, yes. So like the pathways are very different
1638.126875 1644.366875 between men and women. And that impacts what it looks like to come alongside them in reentry.
1644.366875 1652.686875 Especially having children is stressful. Having children in a relationship that is already
1652.686875 1660.926875 fraught with abuse or addiction is just a whole other arena. And it just makes sense to me what
1660.926875 1667.406875 you're saying that this is the path to incarceration. And oh, by the way, there's 80% of them have children.
1667.406875 1674.526875 Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And the need for like all female group sessions, it's just,
1674.526875 1679.886875 again, I don't have data, but impactful, so impactful for women that are experiencing reentry
1679.886875 1684.686875 is to have that pure support. That's someone that's been there. Like one of my passions has been,
1684.686875 1691.566875 how do we gather these women and men who have lived experience, who have succeeded in reentering,
1691.566875 1698.126875 and how do we let them speak in to the women on meeting? Because I may not have the lived experience
1698.126875 1704.126875 of incarceration. So I don't know what it's like to reentry. I've never, thank God, I've never had to
1704.126875 1708.206875 wonder where I'm going to sleep at night. And so there is a piece of this that I can never
1708.206875 1713.726875 enter fully into. I know I have equipping from a spiritual perspective, from a relational and an
1713.726875 1720.526875 emotional perspective, but there are some aspects of physical needs and the scrambling for that
1720.526875 1728.206875 that I have not been able to hold with a reality in my life. And we need women and men to be able
1728.206875 1735.006875 to pour back into those who are coming behind them with the same kind of hope that that you know,
1735.006875 1740.766875 we're limited in Chester County. Our reentry is not strong, we're doing a lot to to re-evaluate it
1740.766875 1747.806875 and to foster a coalition to focus all of the different government agencies and support networks
1747.806875 1753.966875 and ministries and nonprofits to come together to make the reentry experience stronger for Chester
1753.966875 1760.526875 County. But we're not there yet. Yeah, do you have recidivism rates? I do not. I do not. Again,
1760.526875 1767.246875 totally. You may know. Yeah, I was just wondering if maybe you could just walk us through a hypothetical
1767.246875 1772.766875 of a woman who would you would have encountered in the prison who may have come to some of your
1772.766875 1778.846875 meetings, walk us through what that looks like when she leaves the doors of the prison.
1778.846875 1785.566875 Well, I will share this anecdotally because it happened Sunday night. So that's pretty recent here.
1786.446875 1794.046875 I was at a celebrate recovery meeting and I met someone who after I shared that I was
1794.046875 1800.526875 that were relaunching celebrate recovery inside the prison, she was like, oh, I probably met you.
1800.526875 1806.446875 Yeah, I don't think for all the times that she had been there that she probably ever told anyone
1806.446875 1810.046875 else that at that exact moment. She was like, oh, I was there in 2019. I was like, well,
1810.046875 1814.526875 then you definitely saw me. She's like, that's why I came to celebrate recovery. And for me,
1814.526875 1819.246875 there was a full circle moment happening that it's happened a couple times where people were like,
1819.246875 1824.046875 oh, yeah, yeah, I met you. I met you. But this is five and six years later.
1824.046875 1829.246875 Right, right. And you wouldn't necessarily remember them. No, no, no, because when I was in the height,
1829.246875 1833.486875 we had like 25, 30 women in a class. Now, I would pride myself on trying to remember names and
1833.486875 1837.326875 faces and I'm pretty good, but I'm not that good, especially if they were only there for like a
1837.326875 1843.566875 week or two. And I didn't see them for a month over month. How beautiful, though. How beautiful.
1843.566875 1849.166875 Are the feet of those that share the gospel, you know? And that's what you're doing.
1849.166875 1856.446875 Yeah. Well, I'm, this is just listeners. I hope you're enjoying this conversation because, wow,
1856.446875 1862.606875 this is amazing. And I'm just feeling kind of overwhelmed. I would say the best way to address
1862.606875 1869.646875 what you were saying, Mary Beth, in what it looks like to reenter is I have often said that the most
1869.646875 1878.446875 powerful resources we have are relationships. Relational poverty is so impactful. It's like
1878.446875 1885.006875 innumerably impactful because if I don't have a job, you can do a job search online or you can
1885.006875 1892.526875 do a job search and use your social network, right? Your social network will produce much more
1892.526875 1901.166875 job prospecting than just an internet search. Correct. And so what I find as many times the folks
1901.166875 1909.406875 that are leaving prison, their social network is their relational currency is is weaker than the
1909.406875 1916.846875 average person. They may have burned bridges in times of addiction or in taking themselves out of
1916.846875 1922.686875 systems where there was toxic relationships. And so they do not abound with relationships in the
1922.686875 1929.966875 same way that maybe your average citizen does. And that really impacts their ability to get transportation
1929.966875 1936.446875 if they don't have a license to find a radius of where they can live affordable housing where,
1936.446875 1942.846875 you know, is someone going to cut them a break and let them come home to live or do they have to go
1942.846875 1949.406875 scramble and find something on their own. And I think the local church is the best place to rally
1949.406875 1955.566875 so many people that can do their part to help reentry. Reentry won't be done with one non-profit
1955.566875 1962.126875 or one government agency. I truly believe that the the best reentry ministry will be when a church
1962.126875 1969.566875 comes alongside and responds to the heart cry of Chester County prison, the need for people to be
1969.566875 1978.846875 embraced and brought close in and cared for. Well, that leads to this next question that we had
1978.846875 1985.726875 for Christians who are listening to this, who this is all new information for them or they've
1985.726875 1992.526875 never even stopped thinking about it, right? What do you want Christians to know about prison
1992.526875 2000.926875 ministry and these women? What message do you want them to take away from this? Well, that if,
2000.926875 2005.726875 you know, I guess I would say when, if and when you find yourself here listening to this,
2005.726875 2012.126875 if your heart starts racing, right? Or you start going, oh, I want to go Google something that I
2012.126875 2018.206875 heard or you start going, I want to see statistics on women and reentry. If you're finding yourself
2018.206875 2024.206875 thinking or feeling a certain way, there is a next step for you. And it can look as simple as
2024.206875 2032.526875 going on to the the new morning's website, right? Newmorningcares.org is a place where we have
2032.526875 2040.366875 opportunities for donations. We have opportunities for praying prayer requests. We have opportunity to
2040.366875 2046.366875 be a part of our hope-wrapped initiative, which is Christmas when we supply presents from the moms
2046.366875 2051.086875 to their children, if they're incarcerated over Christmas holiday. I love that one. We have a
2051.086875 2057.646875 whole Grace bag initiative. So Grace bags are these backpacks that come packed with what I would
2057.646875 2061.886875 call all the essentials, you know, your shampoo, your condition, or your body wash. The things you
2061.886875 2068.046875 would spend a hundred bucks at CVS if you needed to go replace them all right now, lip balm, toothbrush,
2068.046875 2075.246875 razors, just all the things. We put a bag of all of those essentials together with like a journal,
2075.246875 2079.646875 some pen and paper, maybe a coloring book, just, you know, some fun things fuzzy socks because like who
2079.646875 2086.526875 doesn't need a pair of fuzzy socks. And we meet the women when they get released. They email us,
2086.526875 2092.286875 they reach out to our via phone, text, however. And then we say, yes, we'll meet you and we've got a
2092.286875 2099.006875 Grace bag for you. And so it's a it's a great way to create a conduit for relationship outside.
2099.006875 2105.406875 They always want the Grace bag and we just want to we just want to walk with them. And so we actually,
2105.406875 2110.446875 at Willowdale, I was part of Bible study, on Wednesday mornings
2110.446875 2117.726875 for this past seven, eight weeks, whatever session was. And one of the day of servings, we gathered and
2117.726875 2122.846875 we put together eight Grace bags, the small group of women. We just sat there and ordered a bunch of
2122.846875 2129.646875 supplies and then like assembly lined a bunch of pack packs to be able to be distributed. And so
2129.646875 2136.766875 there's opportunities for for churches or small groups or women's ministries to to do a Grace
2136.766875 2144.366875 bag event or to help do a drive to buy the Bibles that we put. We front and load and buy all the
2144.366875 2151.566875 Bibles for the hope wrapped project. In advance of Christmas, we have the action Bibles for teens,
2151.566875 2157.006875 we have the Jesus storybook Bible for those under 10 and every child and every family gets one.
2157.006875 2163.326875 People have bought us cases of those off of our Amazon wish list from the website. You know,
2163.326875 2167.806875 or you could just go, hey, I want to get on the newsletter. I want to hear a little bit more about
2167.806875 2172.526875 what you're doing and you can just sign up to receive the newsletter. Or you could be like,
2172.526875 2179.086875 no, no, I want to go inside and this might be the podcast that affirms you're calling in your fleece
2179.086875 2184.286875 like I had 10 years ago where you're thinking, maybe this is something you should do and you're not
2184.286875 2189.326875 sure, but then you hear this and go. Yeah, I think it's time that I submit an application and see what
2189.326875 2194.526875 this thing looks like and maybe volunteer. It sounds like there's a lot of really great opportunities
2194.526875 2201.486875 there for anyone who would like to get more involved. And I know that prayer is always, always
2201.486875 2210.046875 encouraged. Yes. Yeah. Dawn, when we were sort of talking about doing this podcast with you,
2210.046875 2218.046875 we had this idea that sometimes there is a passage of scripture or specific
2218.046875 2223.886875 words that God has placed on on your heart or our hearts when He calls us to something. So
2223.886875 2231.006875 you have a passage of scripture that you feel that has kind of been the framework for a lot of
2231.006875 2235.486875 what you've done these last 10 years. And we'd love if you'd be willing to share that with us.
2235.486875 2241.246875 Oh, yeah, I would. When I think back that, I mean, there's a number of passages that got echoed
2241.246875 2246.366875 through my time, but each and every step of this journey for me, the Lord brings me back to one
2246.366875 2253.646875 particular text. And that's Isaiah 61. I have incrementally underlined it and dated it every time
2253.646875 2258.446875 He brought me back to show me the people that He would personally have me minister to out of the
2258.446875 2264.526875 redemptive work He's done and continues to do in my own life. Isaiah 61 says the spirit of the sovereign
2264.526875 2270.366875 Lord is on me because the Lord has annoyed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to
2270.366875 2275.486875 bind up the brokenhearted to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the
2275.486875 2281.246875 prisoners to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor and the day of vengeance of our God to comfort all
2281.246875 2287.806875 who mourn and provide for those who grieve to bestow on them a crown of beauty instead of ashes.
2287.806875 2293.326875 The oil of joy instead of mourning and a garment of praise instead of a spirit of despair.
2293.326875 2299.966875 They will be called oaks of righteousness, a planting of the Lord for the display of His splendor.
2299.966875 2306.846875 They will rebuild the ancient ruins and restore places long devastated. They will renew the
2306.846875 2313.246875 ruins cities that have been devastated for generations. That's Isaiah 61 verses 1 through 4.
2314.286875 2323.726875 Thanks be to God. I can hear as I listen to the words of that scripture,
2323.726875 2331.646875 how beautifully it dovetails with the hope and the redemption that you're able to supply to these
2331.646875 2341.086875 women. It encompasses turning all of the destruction into something solid, a future oaks of righteousness.
2342.286875 2347.886875 He's had a picture of these women that you've ministered to over the years standing firm and tall,
2347.886875 2354.766875 sending their roots down into the truth of gospel and sheltering their children in the shade of
2354.766875 2365.806875 the branches. It's just such a beautiful picture. That's just how God works. He takes the ones that
2365.806875 2373.486875 the world would say absolutely not and that's who he chooses to use to rebuild and restore and to
2373.486875 2384.286875 grow into flourish. Something you said earlier that stuck out to me is just the the closeness of
2384.286875 2393.646875 those that we may not even realize are being affected by the criminal justice system in a variety
2393.646875 2400.046875 of forms. Maybe it's not just the local prison, but it's touching a lot of us in ways we may not be
2400.046875 2410.126875 aware of and just to let that shift our perspective of who these people are. They are created in the
2410.126875 2417.406875 image of God. They are neighbors. They are in our orbit already. That's right. And you don't
2417.406875 2423.326875 in the ministry they are doing. You're just you're just stepping closer. And I think that's a beautiful
2423.326875 2429.726875 demonstration of how the gospel just breaks down those barriers. Just step closer. Just step into it.
2429.726875 2437.566875 These aren't theoretical people out there. They're people in our community. They're neighbors.
2437.566875 2443.726875 That's right. I mean his words as the light shines in the darkness and the darkness is not
2443.726875 2449.886875 overcome it. One five. And I know that I've been called to shine his light in the dark places.
2449.886875 2454.126875 One of which is Chester County prison. It's awesome. City on a hill.
2454.126875 2463.966875 Thank you for being here and educating us. I feel like I learned a lot, Sarah.
2463.966875 2471.246875 I I really did. And everyone knows now that we've been friends for nine years. And I knew you
2471.246875 2478.846875 did this work, but I don't think I fully understood. It's not something you walk around shouting and
2478.846875 2484.766875 jumping up and down. And it's just something that you do as part of who you are. And it's just
2484.766875 2489.726875 been a real joy getting to learn a little bit more about what my friend Dawn is doing over there.
2489.726875 2495.086875 Thank you. And I appreciate the opportunity to share. Oh, we're so grateful to have you here.
2495.086875 2500.766875 Well, listeners, thank you for joining us for this conversation. We hope that your hearts
2500.766875 2507.006875 were encouraged and maybe challenged to take a next step. We'll have links to these things we
2507.006875 2511.566875 mentioned in our show notes. Dawn, thank you so much for being here today.
2511.566875 2518.446875 Thank you. I mean, yes. Until next time, I'm Sarah.
2518.446875 2525.166875 And I'm Mary Beth. And I'm Dawn. And this is Trustworthy.
2525.166875 2535.166875 [BLANK_AUDIO]
2536.126875 2544.126875 [BLANK_AUDIO]
2544.126875 2560.046875 There's one important thing that we need to put in here, Mary Beth.
2560.046875 2564.446875 What's that? It is time for us to put our friend Dawn
2564.606875 2571.886875 on the spot. Bum, bum, bum, brace yourself, Dawn. Yeah, I didn't know this was going to be part of
2571.886875 2578.606875 the agenda of this last week. All right, we've got some rapid fire random questions for you.
2578.606875 2585.326875 Ready? Here's my first one, which I'm stealing from my husband, because he asked me this
2585.326875 2590.126875 this past weekend. What is your favorite thing to do with your kids?
2592.606875 2603.086875 Ooh. I got two answers that are competing. One is board games we're a board game family. Love,
2603.086875 2609.726875 love a good game of cards, some Katan, ticket to ride. Oh, y'all are. We're board gamers.
2609.726875 2616.366875  Yeah. Yeah. The other would be to be at the beach, you know, whether we're playing
2616.366875 2620.766875 bocce ball, they're in the ocean, and I'm watching because I'm not so much wanting to get in,
2621.646875 2626.686875 get destroyed by waves as they are, but spending a day at the beach. Nice.
2626.686875 2632.286875 That's a good answer. Yeah. And long car rides, I probably should have third place. Now that I have
2632.286875 2640.366875 kids going off to college, there are 13 hour road trips and packing up and moving in to dorms
2640.366875 2646.926875 and into apartments and out of apartments, that one-on-one quality time with long conversations and
2646.926875 2652.846875 car rides, priceless for this age and stage. That was one of my answers and my children are only
2652.846875 2659.006875 seven and nine years old. I love the car conversations. Yeah. All right, Sarah, you got another one?
2659.006875 2665.886875 I do. Okay, Dawn. This is an oldie but a goodie. We've asked this in the past. I know your kids
2665.886875 2671.246875 are older now. As you mentioned, you're getting ready to have two out and one still at home. But when
2671.246875 2677.166875 they were little and even now, after your kids are either A, at college or B, off to bed,
2677.166875 2682.606875 what is your one guilty pleasure that you like to indulge in after your kids are in bed?
2682.606875 2688.206875 So I would say, I don't know if I would call it a guilty pleasure, but
2688.206875 2696.206875 it's Survivor's 50th season if you're aware. And my husband and I have watched
2697.406875 2702.446875 probably almost every season, but maybe seven because there's a real season of like we couldn't watch
2702.446875 2710.366875 TV for a couple of years, but because life was too busy. But you will find me watching survivor
2710.366875 2714.286875 every Wednesday night. We have brought the kids in on it. Some of them right now, my 20 year old is
2714.286875 2721.806875 like, I can't wait to watch survivor this week. We binge watched past seasons with them in COVID
2721.806875 2726.766875 when we were home all day. We would watch seasons at a time. They built a fort across the street
2726.766875 2736.846875 in their survival hut. So I would say watching a program was what I looked forward to on Wednesdays
2736.846875 2741.166875 getting my kids to bed so that we could just sit there and watch just the two of us.
2741.166875 2747.886875 That's a great answer. I love that answer. Awesome. Well, thank you for being such a good sport
2747.886875 2753.646875 about this. No it was easy. We weren't too hard on you now. I don't think so. Okay. Well, thank you.
2754.526875 2756.340438 Talk to you later, everybody.