18.529500 22.049500 Well, hello there, Mary Beth.
22.049500 23.769500 Good morning, Sarah.
23.769500 28.649500 Did you know that I can actually see more of your face when we do this virtually like
28.649500 32.369500 we're doing today than when we actually record a person?
32.369500 33.369500 Yes.
33.369500 40.569500 It's true because of all of our extra sound filters and pop filters and ways to not have
40.569500 45.849500 Mike bleed and make my job easier, we end up not being able to see each other very well.
45.849500 47.449500 It's nice to see your face.
47.449500 48.449500 That's right.
48.449500 54.849500 It's nice to be in community with you, Mary Beth, even if it's virtually.
54.849500 57.209500 Even if it's virtually for today.
57.209500 65.089500 So Sarah, we talked last time about spiritual warfare and the armor of God and how that
65.089500 67.569500 equips us.
67.569500 71.489500 There's so much we could talk about in relation to spiritual warfare, but one of the other
71.489500 78.169500 things we thought about discussing was prayer because Sarah remind us how we wrapped
78.169500 80.529500 up the discussion last time.
80.529500 81.529500 Yeah.
81.529500 87.529500 So in the last episode, we were reading from Ephesians 6 about the armor of God and one
87.529500 92.049500 of the most important things that we did not have time to discuss in the last episode
92.049500 102.009500 was verse 18, which is praying at all times in the spirit with all prayer and supplication.
102.009500 111.369500 So today we are going to discuss prayer as a spiritual discipline versus prayer as a relationship.
111.369500 116.689500 And if our listeners remember, we've done one episode before on prayer called everyday
116.689500 121.509500 prayers, if you want to go back and find it, there are a million different things we could
121.509500 128.249500 say and talk about in relation to prayer, why we pray, what are some prayers we can use,
128.249500 131.249500 how do we pray, what should we say, all these things.
131.249500 137.369500 But today we really wanted to think about those two specific topics that Sarah just said,
137.369500 141.289500 spiritual discipline and prayer as a relationship.
141.289500 143.109500 Sarah, let's get into those.
143.109500 150.289500 So Mary Beth, when we use the phrase spiritual discipline, maybe some people have certain
150.289500 154.009500 thoughts and feelings about it and maybe some people are curious as to what we actually
154.009500 155.009500 mean.
155.009500 157.929500 Can you describe that a little bit for us?
157.929500 163.089500 I will try. I'm not the authority on it, but I will try.
163.089500 167.129500 Spiritual discipline does not mean spiritual punishment.
167.129500 171.089500 It does not mean anything negative.
171.089500 178.329500 In my mind, spiritual discipline means things that God has given us to help us in our practice
178.329500 185.969500 and to increase our sanctification and making us more like Him.
185.969500 191.769500 There are a variety of lists out there of what the spiritual disciplines are.
191.769500 197.169500 You know, I think there's any combination of them or good things, things like prayer.
197.169500 198.169500 Ha ha.
198.169500 199.169500 So we're talking about it today.
199.169500 205.329500 But there's other things, fasting, communion, some people would argue Sabbath as a spiritual
205.329500 208.049500 discipline, the practice of Sabbath.
208.049500 212.569500 There's any number of things that could be included in that category, but the big picture
212.569500 220.769500 is things that help to make us more like Jesus that are consistent, repeated practices in
220.769500 221.769500 our life.
221.769500 223.969500 At least that's how I would define it.
223.969500 225.329500 Would you add anything to that?
225.329500 227.169500 Take away anything from that.
227.169500 235.809500 What I hear you saying is spiritual discipline is a lot of what helps us train for godliness
235.809500 239.329500 as well as battle.
239.329500 245.369500 So I think that it's fair to say that a lot of these spiritual disciplines do equip us
245.369500 247.809500 for spiritual warfare.
247.809500 253.729500 And that is something that I would like to be equipped for.
253.729500 257.969500 You know, as we discussed in our last episode, you don't want to spend so much time focusing
257.969500 259.609500 and like worrying about it.
259.609500 264.009500 But hey, forewarned is fore-armed.
264.009500 274.249500 Yeah, we know that the attacks will continue to happen and our hearts should be longing
274.249500 277.609500 for more ways to combat it.
277.609500 284.049500 Prayer is one of those ways that God has said, hey, this thing, this thing called prayer can
284.049500 287.089500 do a lot and can look like a lot of different things.
287.089500 293.489500 One of the great things about it is it can help you in the spiritual realms and the war
293.489500 296.089500 that is happening all around you.
296.089500 304.209500 But sometimes Sarah, if I'm being honest, the discipline things are not coming naturally
304.209500 305.729500 to me.
305.729500 311.209500 So I want to hear from your perspective, because maybe you have a different approach to it
311.209500 313.129500 than I do.
313.129500 318.249500 What's your attitude coming into spiritual disciplines, specifically prayer, the spiritual
318.249500 326.409500 discipline of prayer and has that changed as you've done it or what has it taught you
326.409500 332.329500 about your thoughts and attitudes about the spiritual discipline of prayer?
332.329500 342.369500 I don't do any of this perfectly or even adequately in my mind, but have a desire, right?
342.369500 348.689500 No discipline is pleasant at the time, but yields a harvest of righteousness which apparently
348.689500 353.209500 is also a breastplate.
353.209500 357.609500 I'm small and inadequate.
357.609500 365.809500 I'm unable to stand against the schemes of the devil or the temptations, the world, the
365.809500 370.249500 flesh and the devil, any of these on my own, I cannot do it, but his power is made perfect
370.249500 371.929500 in my weakness.
371.929500 379.609500 And I think one of the things that spiritual discipline does is establishes the fact that
379.609500 383.569500 we are small, but God is big.
383.569500 390.489500 And when I am trying to accomplish a goal, or if I'm training for a marathon, for example,
390.489500 396.609500 or I'll just give the example for my own life, I did a big mountain bike ride last fall.
396.609500 402.329500 And I was a little nervous because it was a long time, it takes several hours to go through,
402.329500 407.969500 and I didn't know if I was going to be able to do it, but I set up a training schedule.
407.969500 415.649500 And I made sure that I did a certain number of miles and a certain type of terrain weekly.
415.649500 421.209500 And I also brought along my friends with me and we encouraged one another.
421.209500 422.849500 We trained together.
422.849500 427.349500 We went to the event together, we planned for the event, and we did it.
427.349500 431.849500 I was really proud that I was able to complete this long ride.
431.849500 439.929500 So if I am training myself for the Christian life, which if you're a Christian, to news flash
439.929500 442.769500 listeners, you're in it.
442.769500 446.529500 If you know the Lord, you're in it.
446.529500 449.249500 So wouldn't you want to be better?
449.249500 454.729500 It's something that you are already in, and yes, we're in by choice because when we believe
454.729500 461.489500 that Christ is who he says he is, the God sent him as a sacrifice to save us and his blood
461.489500 465.649500 covers us, when we believe that, then we're in.
465.649500 470.489500 So let's get started on training, whether we want to or not.
470.489500 476.649500 So I look at it as yes, it is something that I have to do, but there is joy in the submission
476.649500 484.889500 and there is a piece that comes from realizing that we, back from our very first episode
484.889500 490.929500 that we are not God, and sometimes we think we set ourselves up as little gods, little
490.929500 492.609500 but we're really not.
492.609500 495.609500 So we have to submit to that.
495.609500 498.489500 So how is it, that was a, that was the first part of your question.
498.489500 501.569500 The second part is how has it changed me?
501.569500 504.769500 I'm definitely not the person I used to be.
504.769500 514.209500 I am still not who I would like to be, but by God's grace, I can see progress.
514.209500 518.609500 And we've talked about having a journal of Ebenezers or Godwinks.
518.609500 521.289500 We've talked about reading ourselves in the scripture.
521.289500 525.329500 We've talked about all these ways over our last episodes.
525.329500 531.809500 These are all things that I have come to in my spiritual disciplines of prayer, Bible
531.809500 537.489500 or reading, communion of saints, you know, being together with those that are in the word,
537.489500 539.009500 all these different things.
539.009500 545.689500 So the effect on me has definitely been profound, and it is part of the promise that God gives
545.689500 549.969500 us because it says, if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature.
549.969500 552.649500 The old is gone, the new has come.
552.649500 560.849500 And so I look at this as somewhat onerous maybe, but yeah, there's so much promise, so much
560.849500 564.049500 as good they can come out of this.
564.049500 573.929500 Yeah, there's a lot of overlap between any type of learning training as you give the
573.929500 580.889500 example from your mountain biking, scripture uses examples of running the race, right?
580.889500 592.689500 So there's so many ways that how God designed us to function applies to the spiritual formation
592.689500 598.609500 of our hearts and lives as well because it's how it was designed to work.
598.609500 606.929500 And to me, I can go through seasons in my life where I don't view prayer that way.
606.929500 610.209500 I either view it as an ought to.
610.209500 611.729500 I ought to be doing this more.
611.729500 614.489500 I ought to be doing it differently.
614.489500 617.329500 I ought to be, you know, whatever.
617.329500 623.529500 Some people say it's like when you say, I should, I'm shoulding all over myself.
623.529500 630.729500 But what you're saying is true that when it comes to prayer, just like training for anything
630.729500 637.449500 else in our lives, having structure, having consistency, having some practicality to it
637.449500 640.729500 can be really beneficial and transformative.
640.729500 642.889500 I mean, as you mentioned, that's the goal.
642.889500 644.889500 It's making us more like Christ.
644.889500 648.529500 It is transforming our hearts and renewing our minds.
648.529500 649.729500 It's capturing our thoughts.
649.729500 651.769500 It's changing our words.
651.769500 659.009500 We see that a lot in scripture and the prayers of our fellow brothers and sisters whose
659.009500 665.329500 prayers are recorded for us that some of it is future looking.
665.329500 674.489500 They're praying things that are true that their heart hasn't even caught up to yet.
674.489500 681.889500 And that is an encouragement to me that sometimes it's, I don't want to say going through the
681.889500 688.369500 motions, but it's going through the practice and creating that level of discipline does
688.369500 693.289500 get you to where you need to be.
693.289500 698.009500 I don't think it's a spiritual fake until you make it because it's not fake.
698.009500 702.049500 You're actually praying to the God of the universe, right?
702.049500 707.729500 He is actually working through your prayers in you.
707.729500 715.769500 But through that discipline, that's, it's, it's the channel that, that's how it happens.
715.769500 722.209500 And some of it can be kind of nitty-gritty and practical and specific.
722.209500 731.569500 If we choose for it to be, so Sarah, how do we embrace the practicality of prayer as a spiritual
731.569500 733.769500 discipline?
733.769500 741.529500 In Matthew, Jesus gives us a prescription for prayer, so to speak, when He gives us the
741.529500 743.529500 Lord's prayer.
743.529500 746.929500 And I think that is a great place to start.
746.929500 751.329500 There are several ways that we can approach this idea of prayer.
751.329500 755.969500 For some of just the pure mechanics of it, we have two that we think of sometime, which
755.969500 760.689500 is the ACTS method of prayer and the PRAY method of prayer.
760.689500 766.049500 ACTS is adoration, confession, thanksgiving and supplication.
766.049500 771.409500 PRAY is praise, repent, ask, and yield.
771.409500 778.329500 So both of those work very well and they follow that prescription sort of that Jesus gave
778.329500 785.529500 us in the Lord's Prayer, which is praising God first, acknowledging who He is, our Father
785.529500 792.649500 who art in heaven, hallowed be your name, also then going into asking for forgiveness and then
792.649500 798.969500 asking for our daily bread, supplication, those are based on the Lord's Prayer.
798.969500 803.009500 And as far as embracing it, we can use those tools.
803.009500 810.049500 And then when we do sit down to pray, I think it's good to pray in community.
810.049500 815.489500 And sometimes when you're praying in community, it's easier to follow one of these ways.
815.489500 820.809500 I know for our small group, women's small group, we use the PRAY method.
820.809500 826.329500 And it's been very powerful, I have to say, it's drawn us closer together as a group.
826.329500 831.369500 And I've also found that it puts us in right relationship.
831.369500 838.929500 So I'm going to take one of those examples, PRAY, and the thing that I've noticed when
838.929500 845.169500 I pray that way is that it sets my heart right.
845.169500 851.849500 By the time I get to asking God for something, sometimes my requests have changed because
851.849500 857.689500 I've already acknowledged who he is, that I'm smaller than him, that he's bigger than
857.689500 860.929500 me, that his ways are higher than my ways.
860.929500 865.009500 And I've repented of the sin.
865.009500 872.929500 And so sometimes my requests, my asking is different or maybe my perspective has already
872.929500 877.409500 changed about the thing that I'm asking for, which is one thing that we commonly say
877.409500 882.849500 about prayer in Christian circles, is that it may not change the answer, but it changes
882.849500 883.849500 us.
883.849500 893.649500 At our church, they use the PRAY acronym Praise Repent Ask Yield in our children's curriculum
893.649500 895.809500 on Sunday mornings.
895.809500 902.449500 So I would just say as an encouragement, if you're someone who struggles to know what to
902.449500 910.729500 pray or this concept of the spiritual discipline of prayer seems big and overwhelming, even
910.729500 912.329500 the children are learning how to do it.
912.329500 914.289500 So you can use that one too.
914.289500 918.329500 It's not that big once you break it down.
918.329500 923.969500 Praise, praising God for who he is, repent, confess your sin to the Lord, ask him for what
923.969500 924.969500 you need.
924.969500 930.769500 Yield means to put yourself under the authority and control of God, admit, say it can be
930.769500 936.249500 something as simple as, I am not in control, God, and I trust that you are.
936.249500 944.689500 And using these acronyms to structure your prayer can really be helpful and transformative,
944.689500 951.209500 like Sarah was saying, we use the ACTS acronym in our moms in prayer group that we've talked
951.209500 957.969500 about many times on this show, when we're praying for our students and our school district.
957.969500 965.449500 And Sarah was saying, there is something really great about doing this in community sometimes
965.449500 971.649500 and getting into the habit and the discipline of doing this with other believers, just like
971.649500 976.169500 in school, just like in sports, you're going to learn from the people around you as you're
976.169500 978.329500 doing it together too.
978.329500 984.689500 And to me, that's that other part of prayer as a spiritual discipline is that it is something
984.689500 993.489500 that is both public and private and embrace those opportunities that you have to pray together
993.489500 994.929500 with other believers.
994.929500 999.009500 I totally agree.
999.009500 1005.449500 So back to our original topic, Mary Beth, for this episode, prayer as a spiritual discipline
1005.449500 1013.049500 versus prayer as a relationship, spoiler alert listeners, the spiritual discipline's
1013.049500 1015.049500 established in relationship.
1015.049500 1018.409500 They're not actually working against each other.
1018.409500 1020.329500 No, they're not.
1020.329500 1026.609500 But sometimes it's helpful to put them in juxtaposition to be able to further understand
1026.609500 1029.489500 how they fit together.
1029.489500 1037.649500 So prayer as a relationship, Mary Beth, how does that make you feel when I say that phrase?
1037.649500 1042.569500 If we're looking at these two concepts, one versus the other for a moment, we'll let
1042.569500 1046.349500 them sit one versus the other.
1046.349500 1050.789500 In my life, the scale has always been tipped more toward the relationship side, which is
1050.789500 1056.689500 why the discipline side is actually harder for me, I think, when it comes to prayer.
1056.689500 1061.609500 In his mercy, God brought me to himself at a very young age.
1061.609500 1070.169500 And so this concept of pray without ceasing, do everything with prayer and supplication,
1070.169500 1075.209500 that has kind of always been the nature of my relationship with the Lord is feeling
1075.209500 1079.009500 like I can go into every situation with him.
1079.009500 1087.369500 I can remember times of, I mean, man, just so many are coming to my mind, but saying, hey,
1087.369500 1090.689500 God, I don't know if this is really what I should be doing right now.
1090.689500 1092.649500 Will you come along with me in this?
1092.649500 1095.289500 And I know that you're there with me.
1095.289500 1106.729500 So all that to say, I swing way more toward the more casual side of prayer of Jesus is with
1106.729500 1107.729500 me all the time.
1107.729500 1110.329500 The Holy Spirit is there.
1110.329500 1113.529500 I can talk to him about anything at any time.
1113.529500 1115.489500 And I think that's, there's part of this that's great.
1115.489500 1123.369500 And that is part of what the relationship should be, a dialogue with the Lord presenting
1123.369500 1126.369500 our thoughts, our requests to him.
1126.369500 1134.569500 So yeah, all that to say, I feel very comfortable with the prayer as a relationship side of things.
1134.569500 1140.649500 You know, we've talked about different times in Scripture, or God tells us to pray.
1140.649500 1146.689500 And we think about examples of prayer, even in the Old Testament, and Jeremiah, God said
1146.689500 1153.209500 call to me, and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know.
1153.209500 1165.729500 To me, that only happens in relationship that is not a rote academic experience.
1165.729500 1169.569500 That is only happening when you're knowing someone personally, and there's a give-and-a-take.
1169.569500 1175.569500 It's not a distant God that we are praying to, it is someone we know.
1175.569500 1177.609500 So that's my perspective on the relationship.
1177.609500 1182.369500 What's your experience then with prayer and relationship?
1182.369500 1190.249500 My relationship with God has developed and deepened over the years.
1190.249500 1206.529500 And I think that it was probably those prayers of distress, of utter emptiness.
1206.529500 1212.689500 Being at the end, at the end of myself, at the end of everything, those times when all I
1212.689500 1216.969500 could do was call on the name of the Lord.
1216.969500 1226.809500 That I think has given me a level of intimacy with God in my prayer life.
1226.809500 1236.769500 For example, when I pray now, even if it's for a meal, I often start with, oh, precious
1236.769500 1244.289500 Heavenly Father, and I just feel my whole body taking an exhale.
1244.289500 1246.809500 My shoulders drop.
1246.809500 1253.289500 I just feel like I am not carrying whatever this is alone.
1253.289500 1256.449500 God is right there.
1256.449500 1261.329500 He's just waiting for me to call on him.
1261.329500 1269.649500 Before Jesus gave us the Lord's Prayer in Matthew, he told us to pray in secret, and to
1269.649500 1276.529500 not use empty phrases, because God already knows what we need.
1276.529500 1282.729500 And this is kind of funny, but my husband knows what I need.
1282.729500 1288.249500 He knows the things that I enjoy, but he loves to hear me talk about them.
1288.249500 1293.129500 Just like our friendship on this podcast, Mary Beth, often we're on the same page, but boy,
1293.129500 1294.449500 don't we love discussing it?
1294.449500 1298.169500 Don't we love having these deep conversations?
1298.169500 1310.929500 So as far as a relationship, that is established in our deepest heart when we cry out to the
1310.929500 1319.889500 Lord when we share our inmost thoughts and feelings, which he can see anyway, but he wants
1319.889500 1322.129500 to hear it from us.
1322.129500 1323.769500 He is our Abba Father.
1323.769500 1327.769500 He takes delight in us, and I just love this picture.
1327.769500 1332.249500 I think our pastor Greg mentioned this years ago in a sermon.
1332.249500 1338.289500 This picture of us crawling up on Abba Father's lap and putting his arms around us and us looking
1338.289500 1343.489500 up into his loving eyes, and just guess what happened?
1343.489500 1347.209500 This is what happened, and oh, this is what I need, but I know you're going to take care
1347.209500 1348.209500 of it.
1348.209500 1349.209500 Because you love me.
1349.209500 1355.329500 And oh, by the way, you created the universe and you have a standing army of angels and all
1355.329500 1356.809500 the things.
1356.809500 1357.809500 Yep.
1357.809500 1367.329500 That is a really beautiful picture of the relationship side of it, and that again, back
1367.329500 1372.249500 to what I said earlier in the episode, it was by design.
1372.249500 1375.649500 God has made us like him in the need for a relationship.
1375.649500 1379.569500 He is a relational three in one God.
1379.569500 1387.649500 And this is how it was meant to be, which is such a gift and such a beautiful reminder that
1387.649500 1394.249500 our relationship with the Lord can not only inform who we are, but also our relationships
1394.249500 1396.529500 with other people.
1396.529500 1403.849500 If we focus on one of these too much, either on the prescriptive spiritual discipline, this
1403.849500 1412.809500 is the way things need to be or on the relationship, do we miss out on the other one?
1412.809500 1417.769500 I guess the question is more like, what do we miss from the other side of things if we
1417.769500 1420.169500 are only focusing on one?
1420.169500 1429.969500 Well, I think a lot about marriage and the picture it is of Christ and the church and our relationship
1429.969500 1438.809500 to God and just like the marriage relationship takes work when we're putting in the work, when
1438.809500 1445.089500 we're doing the things that we know will better our marriage, the relationship improves.
1445.089500 1453.689500 The relationship is healthier. If we're focusing just on the easy parts, the romantic parts,
1453.689500 1459.249500 the whatever, when real life happens, we're not going to be equipped to handle it, right?
1459.249500 1464.529500 So to me, you have to have both to help each other.
1464.529500 1469.009500 The disciplines would not be worth it if the relationship was not there.
1469.009500 1472.649500 The relationship would not work if the discipline is not there.
1472.649500 1480.829500 But they're both working together for our betterment and for not just our betterment,
1480.829500 1484.329500 but our sanctification.
1484.329500 1492.329500 If we're always praying prescriptive prayers, specific things, we can miss out on that intimacy.
1492.329500 1498.929500 And then conversely, if we put God in the friend zone, and I'm using quotes on that, and I'm
1498.929500 1503.289500 saying that tongue in cheek, but also as a warning as we discuss the screw tape letters in
1503.289500 1507.969500 our last episode, the enemy sometimes makes us very complacent.
1507.969500 1513.129500 And we can sometimes think that, oh, God is just there as my friend.
1513.129500 1519.409500 And if I need him and like, I can just pray when I feel like it, then we miss out on our
1519.409500 1524.409500 spiritual formation and becoming more like Christ.
1524.409500 1533.089500 Here is a quote from the late Tim Keller that captures this big picture that I want to share.
1533.089500 1537.729500 He says, "What is prayer then, in the fullest sense?
1537.729500 1542.609500 Prayer is continuing a conversation that God has started through His Word and His grace,
1542.609500 1546.369500 which eventually becomes a full encounter with Him.
1546.369500 1553.129500 The power of our prayers then lies not primarily in our effort and striving, or in any technique,
1553.129500 1558.249500 but rather in our knowledge of God."
1558.249500 1565.329500 And I like how Keller puts that, that he's not discounting the effort and striving, but
1565.329500 1572.129500 the power of our prayers is that the more we pray and the more we talk with God, our knowledge
1572.129500 1573.609500 of Him grows.
1573.609500 1576.809500 And as you said earlier, it changes how we pray.
1576.809500 1581.489500 Changes what we ask for, changes our perspective and our attitudes.
1581.489500 1586.729500 And to me, that's such a distinctive, if we're thinking about spiritual warfare, it is such
1586.729500 1593.329500 a distinctive of the faith that we hold and ascribe to, in comparison to other things
1593.329500 1596.289500 out there in the world.
1596.289500 1601.049500 It is not a dictatorship in the kingdom of God.
1601.049500 1606.289500 It is relational and it is kingdom building and it is a family.
1606.289500 1612.369500 We have direct access to a God who wants to spend time with us.
1612.369500 1613.889500 So why would we not?
1613.889500 1614.889500 Right?
1614.889500 1617.369500 Why would we not?
1617.369500 1626.409500 What do you think, Sarah, in terms of this discipline versus relationship, how do you
1626.409500 1633.289500 see them actually not competing but working together?
1633.289500 1637.409500 We touched on a little bit, but I feel like there's probably more we can get into there.
1637.409500 1639.729500 Well, we did touch on this a little bit.
1639.729500 1647.929500 We talked about marriage, again, perfect example, but it's kind of like cooking, Mary Beth.
1647.929500 1655.209500 When we know how to do something, but we don't actually do it, we don't get anything out
1655.209500 1656.849500 of it.
1656.849500 1658.329500 Making an omelette, for example.
1658.329500 1663.689500 I can know how to make an omelette, but if I don't actually go through the steps of making
1663.689500 1668.049500 an omelette, I am not going to have one to eat.
1668.049500 1673.649500 If I start out making an omelette, it's probably not going to be great if I've never made one
1673.649500 1675.409500 before.
1675.409500 1677.289500 Could be all sorts of things wrong with it.
1677.289500 1682.849500 There could be some eggshells in it, could be burned, it could look more like a scramble,
1682.849500 1683.849500 which is fine.
1683.849500 1685.889500 Still food.
1685.889500 1694.529500 But the more time I spend on crafting and honing my cooking skills, the better I become
1694.529500 1700.409500 at making an omelette, the greater my enjoyment of consuming it, eating that omelette will
1700.409500 1701.409500 be.
1701.409500 1709.889500 So the more time we spend on praying and fasting and being in communion with the saints and
1709.889500 1713.969500 all of these spiritual disciplines, and as we said, we could argue what they are, but
1713.969500 1716.189500 I think it's clear some of these things we're talking about today.
1716.189500 1722.969500 So for prayer, more time we spend in prayer as a spiritual discipline, the greater our enjoyment
1722.969500 1727.289500 of God and our relationship with Him will be.
1727.289500 1730.009500 There's room for both.
1730.009500 1736.089500 And I am sure that you will agree with me that we're not here to say, oh, if you're not
1736.089500 1741.289500 praying in a spiritual discipline way that you're not getting to heaven or if you don't
1741.289500 1746.249500 have an intimate relationship, prayer life with God, that you're not a Christian.
1746.249500 1747.969500 We're not saying that at all.
1747.969500 1751.409500 We're talking about how can we enjoy God?
1751.409500 1757.569500 How can we spend time on this earth, you know, see the goodness of the Lord and the land
1757.569500 1768.769500 of the living as David says, this is a way using prayer in a disciplined way, as well as
1768.769500 1770.209500 in intimate way.
1770.209500 1776.889500 And both of those things come together to make what should hopefully be an enjoyable and
1776.889500 1779.769500 enriching relationship and experience as a Christian.
1779.769500 1783.969500 Oh, and a delicious omelette.
1783.969500 1791.409500 As you said, toward the beginning, if you are a follower of Jesus, if you're a Christian,
1791.409500 1795.609500 if you're a believer, you're in it already.
1795.609500 1799.849500 Like, you're on this path, this journey of sanctification.
1799.849500 1804.409500 Our goal is just to be an encouragement and a help along the way.
1804.409500 1810.489500 Just a Sarah saying, we're not prescribing this is what you have to do.
1810.489500 1816.329500 We're saying, hey, this is what we see God teaching us to do.
1816.329500 1817.329500 Let's help each other.
1817.329500 1818.529500 Let's help each other do it.
1818.529500 1824.209500 Let's encourage us to exhort one another to follow this example that God's given us.
1824.209500 1831.169500 I did want to go back, we've talked about kind of both doing this in community.
1831.169500 1834.929500 And then you mentioned how God tells us to pray and secret.
1834.929500 1839.849500 I did want to because we kind of jumped around on both of those.
1839.849500 1843.849500 I did just want to maybe talk about that for a second.
1843.849500 1850.449500 How do we navigate what's appropriate there, you know, silent solitude, personal prayer
1850.449500 1857.529500 versus public community prayer, again, I don't think these are actually versus each other.
1857.529500 1863.369500 But do you have any thoughts there on how to know what's appropriate?
1863.369500 1869.129500 Personal prayer in my mind is more practicing the presence of God.
1869.129500 1874.449500 I think that there is a small tome, actually, a tome might not be the right word, a booklet
1874.449500 1879.609500 by Brother Lawrence practicing the presence of God, wonderful read, and just a lovely
1879.609500 1881.889500 concept.
1881.889500 1889.809500 And so for personal prayers, I think more along the lines of just being in his presence
1889.809500 1898.089500 and giving all of my thoughts over to him, it is easier to take control of the thoughts
1898.089500 1904.929500 that I have and the things that I say if I am rooted and grounded in that presence.
1904.929500 1909.869500 And so my personal prayers could just be things that I am saying in my head.
1909.869500 1912.609500 They could be things that I say out loud.
1912.609500 1917.769500 And there are some things that are appropriate to pray out loud in front of other people.
1917.769500 1921.529500 And there are some things that are probably not appropriate to pray out loud in front of
1921.529500 1923.009500 a group of people.
1923.009500 1927.769500 Maybe with a friend, a trusted friend, there are some things that we should be praying.
1927.769500 1936.089500 But I do find that my approach personally to prayer is different than when I pray with
1936.089500 1937.089500 a group.
1937.089500 1944.289500 However, I think that when we pray together, it's appropriate to model some of that intimacy
1944.289500 1946.809500 within the group prayer.
1946.809500 1948.329500 Is this a small group?
1948.329500 1951.129500 Is it our women's, mothers in prayer group?
1951.129500 1953.129500 We know where everyone knows each other pretty well.
1953.129500 1954.129500 We're all there.
1954.129500 1957.609500 We have a level of intimacy that we've established.
1957.609500 1960.769500 So there's certain prayers that are appropriate for that.
1960.769500 1966.929500 And then if we're praying corporately, like as a church or as a nation or we're writing
1966.929500 1973.089500 prayers for people to read in the future, so to speak, then there's a certain way that
1973.089500 1974.889500 we would approach those.
1974.889500 1982.609500 But all of them need to be approached from a place of humility and deference in that
1982.609500 1985.009500 God is awesome.
1985.009500 1986.689500 He is who he is.
1986.689500 1988.129500 We are not him.
1988.129500 1995.449500 And so everyone that approaches the throne does so with humility and also with Jesus as
1995.449500 1996.449500 an intercessor.
1996.449500 2001.169500 I think that's another thing that's important to mention.
2001.169500 2002.169500 Those are great points.
2002.169500 2008.129500 Thanks for saying something coherent that I couldn't put together in my head.
2008.129500 2012.109500 No, we, listen, we, speaking of spiritual warfare.
2012.109500 2018.149500 We've had a lovely, and when I say lovely, I have an eye roll and quotes around it at
2018.149500 2021.449500 time, getting this episode together for y'all this morning.
2021.449500 2028.189500 But boy, I'll tell you what my, my dog is barking and my children are happily yelling.
2028.189500 2033.229500 So I don't know if y'all can hear that listeners, but it's, you know, it's nonstop in this life.
2033.229500 2040.469500 And I was thinking Sarah that there might be people listening who say, okay, I do, I do
2040.469500 2044.749500 though want the practical, you know, what, what do I do with this information?
2044.749500 2051.349500 How do I move forward if I want to, you know, kind of incorporate some of the spiritual discipline?
2051.349500 2055.469500 And we can include some resources in our show notes.
2055.469500 2061.949500 There are so many resources out there that you can turn to a few that have been helpful
2061.949500 2065.389500 in my own life.
2065.389500 2072.469500 We talk about John Mark Comer fairly often on this podcast, but he has a series on the
2072.469500 2076.089500 spiritual disciplines, practicing the way is the name of the series.
2076.089500 2082.509500 So there's the practice of prayer and it's focused more on kind of that personal, solitude
2082.509500 2083.909500 approach.
2083.909500 2088.269500 So if you're looking for something that helped in that way, I would commend that to you.
2088.269500 2091.749500 It's not a comprehensive, everything about prayer, you know, there's some things he
2091.749500 2097.029500 doesn't include, but it's a good kind of frame of reference.
2097.029500 2100.469500 I also echo what Sarah said about screwtape letters.
2100.469500 2106.789500 It is a good book to read to understand the spiritual warfare side of prayer.
2106.789500 2112.669500 If you're looking for kind of the bigger picture, philosophical theological side of things.
2112.669500 2116.709500 Sarah, do you have other resources that you would recommend?
2116.709500 2117.709500 I do.
2117.709500 2121.869500 People will actually be doing a short prayer at the end of this episode, just a kind of model
2121.869500 2124.269500 using the PRAY method.
2124.269500 2132.829500 But I do want to offer up a Psalms 144 through 150, specifically at the very end of Psalms.
2132.829500 2136.509500 And the reason why is that they're all about praise.
2136.509500 2141.309500 And in fact, the last verse in Psalms is 156.
2141.309500 2145.469500 Let everything that has breath, praise the Lord, praise the Lord.
2145.469500 2151.269500 So if you're struggling on what to say as part of your praise, just start by reading a few
2151.269500 2156.429500 verses of those, one of those Psalms, that would be a great, great way to start.
2156.429500 2161.429500 And for repentance, again, there are other verses in the Psalms.
2161.429500 2163.349500 Search me, oh God, know my heart.
2163.349500 2168.869500 These can be things that you maybe know you need to repent or not really at all.
2168.869500 2172.629500 It could just be something that God brings in your heart in that moment.
2172.629500 2176.009500 There are verses available for all of these parts of this.
2176.009500 2177.949500 So those are my resources.
2177.949500 2178.949500 That's great.
2178.949500 2185.269500 And again, y'all, we just are doing this along with you, right?
2185.269500 2189.629500 We are not, we have not perfected prayers of spiritual discipline.
2189.629500 2193.309500 We have not perfected prayers of the relationship with God.
2193.309500 2198.589500 So we're walking alongside of all of you and figuring this out as well.
2198.589500 2204.429500 I hope that some of this resonated, some of this was a good reminder of things you've learned
2204.429500 2205.429500 in the past.
2205.429500 2209.309500 And maybe some of this was something new to consider.
2209.309500 2212.229500 Any closing thoughts from you, Sarah?
2212.229500 2215.829500 Let's pray.
2215.829500 2219.229500 Precious Heavenly Father, we praise you.
2219.229500 2223.829500 Praise the Lord, praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights, praise him,
2223.829500 2227.909500 all his angels, praise him, all his hosts.
2227.909500 2231.349500 Let them praise the name of the Lord.
2231.349500 2237.469500 Father, we confess that we have sinned against you in thought, word and deed by what we have done,
2237.469500 2240.469500 by what we have left undone.
2240.469500 2247.309500 May you bring to mind all those who hear this the ways that we have wronged you and the ways
2247.309500 2249.509500 that we need to repent.
2249.509500 2257.029500 Lord, we ask for our listeners, for our trustworthy community, for Mary Beth and I and our
2257.029500 2258.029500 families.
2258.029500 2265.929500 We ask that you would draw us ever closer to you, that you would put in us a hunger and
2265.929500 2275.829500 thirst for righteousness, that you would give us the words and you would give us the thoughts
2275.829500 2279.709500 that you would have us have.
2279.709500 2283.949500 And Father, we yield to your authority.
2283.949500 2289.749500 You alone are the one who deserves all of our praise, our glory to the Father, the Son,
2289.749500 2292.709500 and the Holy Spirit.
2292.709500 2295.269500 We yield to you and your plans for all of us.
2295.269500 2296.269500 Amen.
2296.269500 2297.269500 Amen.
2297.269500 2303.709500 I'm Sarah and I'm Mary Beth and this is Trustworthy.