18.854625 23.554625 - Well, hello there to a whole screen full
23.554625 25.494625 of beautiful people this morning.
25.494625 30.494625 We have Christine Elsen, and we have Maggie Walker,
30.494625 34.854625 and we have our darling Mary Beth Gombita.
34.854625 37.494625 - Always here.
37.494625 38.774625 Welcome, you all.
38.774625 40.094625 - Thank you.
40.094625 41.654625 - Thank you.
41.654625 44.614625 We have handpicked these fine individuals today.
44.614625 46.694625 I'm just trying to make them more and more nervous
46.694625 47.534625 as we can start.
47.534625 48.374625 I'm just kidding.
48.374625 52.534625 - Yeah, and I will say this before we started
52.534625 56.774625 our first podcast recording, like way back
56.774625 60.494625 in the prehistory of Trustworthy Podcast,
60.494625 64.054625 I asked Christine, "Hey, would you ever agree
64.054625 66.494625 "to be interviewed on our podcast?"
66.494625 69.854625 And she was an early affirmative response.
69.854625 71.654625 She said, "Yes, I would."
71.654625 72.694625 So here we are.
72.694625 74.334625 We're finally following through
74.334625 76.174625 on that intention, Christine.
76.174625 79.014625 - Here we are, today's finally here.
79.014625 84.334625 - Well, Sarah, we, like a lot of our guests,
84.334625 89.334625 know these fine ladies from church initially, primarily,
89.334625 93.014625 but maybe we could each share a little bit
93.014625 94.054625 about how we know the more.
94.054625 97.534625 I think Maggie and I first got connected
97.534625 100.054625 through mothers of preschoolers,
100.054625 103.654625 and Christine similarly was a mentor mom there.
103.654625 105.294625 I can't remember Christine like when we first met.
105.294625 107.614625 If it was through that, or just church stuff,
107.614625 109.654625 or school stuff, or what, but...
109.654625 112.534625 - Yeah, I think it was either mobs,
112.534625 114.774625 or maybe even young life.
114.774625 116.374625 - Oh, that's right.
116.374625 117.374625 Yeah.
117.374625 118.214625 - Yeah, that's true.
118.214625 119.654625 - It's many years ago.
119.654625 122.134625 - And then Sarah, what would you say
122.134625 124.774625 your intro to these lovely ladies was?
124.774625 130.774625 - I think Christine and I got to know each other better
130.774625 134.774625 through mothers and prayer, and Maggie,
135.614625 140.614625 because of, I guess, her interaction with my son,
140.614625 144.054625 and him helping out with the youth at church.
144.054625 147.414625 But I remember running into her family years ago
147.414625 152.214625 and Chick-fil-A, I think, when my son was young enough
152.214625 155.734625 to still be in the playroom there.
155.734625 157.214625 We had a great conversation.
157.214625 158.774625 I don't quite remember all the details,
158.774625 161.214625 but it was a good conversation.
161.214625 163.814625 - I remember enjoying our conversation.
163.814625 164.654625 - Yeah.
164.654625 167.614625 - Well, hey, let's have another good conversation today, ladies.
167.614625 169.054625 - Here we go.
169.054625 173.934625 - So we're kind of in this series we're doing on education,
173.934625 177.414625 and how we as believers are navigating education
177.414625 179.654625 for our children, choosing it.
179.654625 182.054625 So maybe, Christine, I'll let you go first.
182.054625 185.174625 Can you just tell us the age range of your kids,
185.174625 187.414625 where they are in their schooling,
187.414625 190.254625 and then Maggie, will have you answer the same question?
190.254625 192.454625 - Yeah, so I have five children,
192.454625 197.454625 and the oldest is 24, and the youngest is 12.
197.454625 200.774625 So we've been making educational decisions for our kids
200.774625 203.894625 for decades at this point.
203.894625 208.894625 And we have more or less stuck with our initial decision
208.894625 213.454625 which we made 25 years ago, which was public school.
213.454625 216.454625 Yeah, so that's kind of the dynamics of my family,
216.454625 218.974625 the age range, so.
218.974625 223.174625 And that has been primarily here in the same school district,
223.174625 224.494625 Sarah and I are in, right?
224.494625 227.254625 But you started your own Illinois, is that right?
227.254625 228.094625 - That's correct.
228.094625 231.374625 My oldest did kindergarten in Illinois,
231.374625 235.214625 and then we moved here in 2007,
235.214625 238.054625 and actually he repeated kindergarten again,
238.054625 240.334625 just so that he would not come in as a new kid.
240.334625 241.974625 He's a late summer birthday.
241.974625 245.014625 So that was a great decision.
245.014625 246.174625 No regrets about that.
246.174625 248.614625 One particular decision, for sure.
248.614625 252.694625 But yeah, so we are at Unionville Chaths Ford School District.
252.694625 255.134625 - Okay, and then Maggie, what about you?
255.134625 257.574625 - So I have four kids.
257.574625 260.134625 My oldest is an adopted, he's 26.
260.134625 262.054625 He did public school all the way through.
262.054625 264.974625 We have a homeschool of the next three,
264.974625 268.714625 so fourth grade, second grade, and kindergarten.
268.714625 272.494625 And you started with your oldest, wouldn't we?
272.494625 274.454625 - We did, yep, yep, yeah.
274.454625 277.694625 - So then the next question ladies is,
277.694625 279.814625 how did you decide?
279.814625 281.854625 So we'll stay with you right now, Maggie.
281.854625 285.454625 How did you, in your husband, decide to a homeschool,
285.454625 286.774625 your three younger children?
286.774625 290.894625 - So as we were thinking through some of these questions
290.894625 292.854625 that you gave us ahead of time,
292.854625 296.414625 it was kind of funny because I kept coming back to,
296.414625 298.454625 it's a little cyclical in some ways.
298.454625 303.254625 So I was homeschooled from day one through graduation.
303.254625 307.174625 And so in some ways I think that it started with
307.174625 310.374625 my parents' decision to homeschool me.
310.374625 313.094625 I was thinking through why I was homeschooled.
313.094625 316.334625 We moved around a lot, that had a huge factor in it.
316.334625 320.374625 But then it was also my mom just wanted a really hands-on
320.374625 322.574625 Christian approach to my education.
322.574625 325.574625 And I just had such a special experience
325.574625 328.374625 through my whole time being homeschooled
328.374625 331.054625 that from when I started thinking about,
331.054625 333.854625 oh, when I married one day, what will we do?
333.854625 336.254625 I've always wanted to try it.
336.254625 341.254625 I always wanted to give my kids a similar experience.
341.254625 345.814625 And luckily when I met my husband, he was in for that.
345.814625 349.934625 And so, but obviously it's evolved a little bit
349.934625 352.214625 or why has evolved.
352.214625 356.694625 And so I think that it's been really powerful for me
356.694625 361.854625 to want to be around them for as much time as I can
361.854625 363.574625 in their little years.
363.574625 366.094625 I think that's been a huge factor for me,
366.094625 369.774625 recognizing that it's going by so fast already.
369.774625 373.414625 And I love the fact that I get to be with them
373.414625 378.414625 during the day and kind of impact their education
378.414625 380.454625 a little bit.
380.454625 383.174625 I was convicted through a conversation
383.174625 385.734625 with my cousin many, many years back.
385.734625 389.174625 And remember, she said, "We want to be their lead disciple
389.174625 391.374625 "in their best hours."
391.374625 393.614625 And that really stuck with me.
393.614625 397.814625 I love getting to be with them when they're not groggy
397.814625 399.374625 and when they're not tired.
399.374625 401.814625 I like being with them throughout the day
401.814625 403.814625 and getting those little moments.
403.814625 408.334625 And I think that is what has shaped my desire,
408.334625 411.454625 my why to want to homeschool them.
411.454625 416.134625 And my husband is super supportive of that thought.
416.134625 419.374625 Now did your husband do public school
419.374625 421.334625 what was his background growing up?
421.334625 424.974625 She was private Christian school all the way through.
424.974625 427.054625 And he had a great experience there too
427.054625 428.974625 and loved his experience.
428.974625 432.174625 And so yeah, it's just he's been really great
432.174625 437.174625 to support whatever we think each kid needs each year.
437.174625 440.134625 That's what we've committed to is like re-evaluating,
440.134625 443.334625 recognizing we have to hold it very open handedly,
443.334625 446.454625 but hoping that this is going to work,
446.454625 449.254625 but recognizing it might not work with each kid.
449.254625 453.334625 And so he's been really great about being open about all that.
453.334625 456.454625 - Yeah, that's really interesting.
456.454625 461.014625 I like the one quote that you gave from your cousin,
461.014625 464.254625 I think it was, "I want to be the lead disciple
464.254625 466.054625 "in the years when it matters."
466.054625 467.934625 And can you repeat that?
467.934625 470.334625 She said, "I want to be their lead disciple
470.334625 472.134625 "in their best hours."
472.134625 474.614625 - The lead disciple and the best hours.
474.614625 475.974625 I love that, wow.
475.974625 478.174625 - Okay, well thank you.
478.174625 479.854625 Christine, same question for you.
479.854625 482.734625 How did you and your husband arrive at the decision
482.734625 485.494625 to send your daughter to public school?
485.494625 489.574625 - So we made the decision when we lived in Wheaton, Illinois,
489.574625 494.574625 which is a very sort of conservative, strong Christian,
495.334625 498.374625 strong churches, strong youth groups.
498.374625 499.854625 We had a lot of community there.
499.854625 503.654625 And so we made the decision that we were going to take
503.654625 505.294625 the path of least resistance,
505.294625 510.054625 that we would do what was simple for our kids
510.054625 513.574625 and that knowing that we had other options
513.574625 516.974625 if things went awry, if there were problems.
516.974625 521.974625 And I think just as we kind of parsed it out in our minds,
522.574625 527.574625 we did also mean kind of opposite of Maggie.
527.574625 531.694625 Just felt like there were a lot of Christians surrounding them
531.694625 533.854625 and their community and in their circle
533.854625 538.854625 that we also wanted those people to influence them.
538.854625 542.654625 And that was truer in Wheaton than it has been here,
542.654625 546.694625 although my children have had some wonderful Christian mentors
546.694625 549.374625 here and through the public school.
549.374625 554.094625 But our thought was would do take the path of least resistance
554.094625 558.334625 from the beginning knowing that there are other options available
558.334625 560.974625 to us if there were any problems.
560.974625 565.574625 My husband really, I think he felt more strongly about it
565.574625 568.734625 than I did, he grew up going to public school.
568.734625 571.534625 I grew up going to private schools,
571.534625 573.774625 but not Christian private school,
573.774625 576.214625 just more like preparatory schools.
576.214625 581.214625 So neither of us came from like a Christian education
581.214625 583.174625 background in our younger years.
583.174625 585.254625 We both went to Christian colleges,
585.254625 589.254625 but anyway, that was our decision making process.
589.254625 591.134625 - Thank you very much.
591.134625 595.774625 - So if you're thinking about these decisions
595.774625 599.454625 and I'm sure you both still have children
599.454625 602.094625 that have a lot of years left of school.
602.094625 603.774625 So I Christine, you're not done yet.
603.774625 606.694625 (both laughing)
606.694625 611.574625 One of the things that I often think about
611.574625 615.174625 just as a parent of someone's school aged as a believer
615.174625 620.174625 is the duality of are they getting a good education
620.174625 625.174625 and also what are they learning and are they learning
625.174625 628.414625 the most important things that we want them to be learning
628.414625 630.894625 about worldview and God and who they are.
630.894625 634.894625 And maybe y'all could talk a little bit about
634.894625 640.414625 how you see pros and cons of the choices you've made so far
640.414625 641.774625 and how that's working.
641.774625 644.134625 Both just from the education side
644.134625 646.054625 but also from the discipleship side.
646.054625 648.094625 Christine, I'll throw it back to you first.
648.094625 649.134625 - Sure.
649.134625 652.734625 Well, I think from the educational side, my children's,
652.734625 656.374625 what they have learned, the content of what they have learned,
656.374625 659.934625 the education has been amazing.
659.934625 663.614625 I mean, they are what they have learned,
663.614625 665.574625 the breadth of what they have read,
665.574625 669.534625 the extent to which they discuss current events
669.534625 673.894625 and take in just so much information.
673.894625 678.014625 And I think the teachers within our school district
678.014625 681.734625 are so very committed to their profession
681.734625 684.054625 and to excellence in the classroom.
684.054625 688.854625 And I feel like without any qualms,
688.854625 692.934625 do I feel completely confident in the content
692.934625 694.014625 of their education?
694.014625 697.294625 I don't feel they have dabbled in things
697.294625 702.094625 that contradict our faith or that would in any way,
702.094625 704.534625 I don't know, discourage them in their pursuit
704.534625 707.054625 of Christianity or Jesus Christ.
707.054625 712.054625 So there's that but there's also to Maggie's point
712.054625 715.174625 like they are not being discipled throughout the day.
715.174625 720.174625 Their Christian character and their Christian formation,
720.174625 723.374625 I guess, I would say is not anyone's priority
723.374625 724.494625 during the school day.
724.494625 728.094625 That is what is left to us in the groggy morning hours
728.094625 731.974625 and in the exhausted evening hours and on the weekends,
731.974625 735.254625 of course, but yeah, I would say the quality
735.254625 738.974625 of their education has been just mind blowing.
738.974625 742.014625 So did I answer the question?
742.014625 747.014625 Yeah. And then what do you think have been the pros,
747.014625 751.894625 if any, just from the discipleship side of things
751.894625 754.654625 of your kids being in a public school environment?
754.654625 755.494625 Do you see any pros?
755.494625 756.334625 Yeah.
756.334625 761.014625 So I wouldn't say pros as far as discipleship goes.
761.014625 765.054625 I would say pros as far as other Christian teachers
765.054625 770.014625 who are making a witness examples of how to function
770.014625 772.874625 as a Christian and a non-Christian environment.
772.874625 774.294625 I think there are examples of that.
774.294625 778.094625 I don't think there's discipleship happening per se.
778.094625 780.894625 My children are involved or happen
780.894625 783.574625 and still are involved in young life,
783.574625 788.134625 which is a Christian ministry within on our campuses.
788.134625 791.774625 And there is definitely discipleship happening
791.774625 794.534625 within the school community, not at their schools,
794.534625 797.774625 but young life has been very formative for them,
797.774625 800.574625 relationships with their young life leaders
800.574625 802.574625 and going away on camp trips.
802.574625 807.574625 And also the opportunity to really bring their friends
807.574625 812.654625 into the faith, non-Christian to non-churched,
812.654625 815.654625 I should say, friends who have been able to participate
815.654625 819.654625 in that it's a very easy entry point
819.654625 823.094625 as a non-churched child to hear about the gospel.
823.094625 826.454625 So that has been kind of the extent of their ministry.
826.454625 827.894625 I would say.
827.894625 829.614625 - Yeah, that makes sense.
829.614625 831.574625 So then Maggie, with your experience,
831.574625 836.174625 being able to focus so much on the discipleship during the day,
836.174625 838.934625 maybe you could talk a little bit about pros and cons
838.934625 841.734625 of both the education side and the discipleship side.
841.734625 843.214625 - Sure. - Your experience.
843.214625 846.894625 - So, and I just want to preface this by saying like,
846.894625 849.134625 I recognize that this is can,
849.134625 852.334625 I should say, can be a sensitive subject for people.
852.334625 856.934625 And there is not one perfect solution, right?
856.934625 860.494625 Or like Pansia for the education of a kid.
860.494625 862.614625 And that's what's kind of cool is.
862.614625 867.054625 I think probably, at least I know I go back and forth constantly
867.054625 868.574625 about is this what's right?
868.574625 871.254625 And it's been cool to talk with people that send their kids
871.254625 873.374625 to Christian school, friends that send their kids
873.374625 874.214625 to public school.
874.214625 876.174625 And like, it's just really cool to hear
876.174625 879.214625 that we're all kind of just, is this what's best?
879.214625 882.894625 And so, you know, as I was thinking through the pros and cons,
882.894625 885.014625 there are cons, right?
885.014625 889.374625 Like I loved what Christine said about how her kids have teachers
889.374625 892.414625 investing in them that are sharing their perspective
892.414625 895.254625 and their witness, especially the Christian teachers,
895.254625 898.374625 investing in them, having multiple adults
898.374625 899.894625 pour into her kids.
899.894625 901.534625 My kids don't have that.
901.534625 905.614625 It's me and it's up to me building
905.614625 908.894625 this maybe morally thick community around them,
908.894625 911.854625 asking adults to invest in them.
911.854625 915.774625 They don't necessarily have people in authority
915.774625 919.654625 like a kid who goes to school has other than me.
919.654625 923.134625 And so that can be, that can be a challenge.
923.134625 927.694625 And my husband and I were talking about we're not sure
927.694625 931.374625 that like my kids are getting the very best education
931.374625 933.294625 because that would be super hotty of me to think
933.294625 936.574625 that like someone who goes to school who gets trained
936.574625 939.574625 in this for years, educated in this is not doing
939.574625 940.494625 as good a job as me.
940.494625 943.814625 And I definitely don't think that that's true.
943.814625 947.574625 We live in one of the best districts in the state
947.574625 949.294625 in our county, right?
949.294625 951.654625 Like my kids would be probably going,
951.654625 955.374625 I think it's the top ranked elementary school in the area.
955.374625 957.734625 So like, I know that they would be getting
957.734625 960.974625 a phenomenal education outside of my home,
960.974625 966.014625 but I think for me, I'm doing my very best to educate them.
966.014625 968.734625 But, and like doing it to the best of my ability
968.734625 971.494625 and pushing them to what I think is appropriate.
971.494625 973.334625 But at the end of the day,
973.334625 977.574625 I think why we're homeschooling is not for that reason.
977.574625 981.374625 And I think that can be a pro and a con, right?
981.374625 986.174625 And so I think that the pro would be getting
986.174625 989.334625 to invest in them and help shape the world view
989.334625 991.894625 and kind of have a hand on the content
991.894625 993.694625 that they're learning.
993.694625 995.854625 But the con would be maybe it would be taught way better
995.854625 998.374625 more creatively by someone else.
998.374625 1001.134625 And they could be missing out on that.
1001.134625 1004.814625 I think that another pro would be, again,
1004.814625 1007.574625 maybe they're not getting the best education out there.
1007.574625 1011.774625 But I think that getting to protect them a little longer
1011.774625 1016.534625 by maybe missing out on some of the unnecessary social things
1016.534625 1019.414625 that could happen in school, maybe sheltering them
1019.414625 1020.454625 for a little bit longer.
1020.454625 1022.694625 But I think a con would be also like,
1022.694625 1024.214625 I'm going to have to be really intentional
1024.214625 1027.574625 with teaching them to understand what they believe
1027.574625 1028.734625 and why they believe it.
1028.734625 1031.214625 Because if they're not being challenged by peers
1031.214625 1034.374625 in that way, then when are they going to learn?
1034.374625 1038.494625 And so trying to create those situations for them.
1038.494625 1040.454625 Whereas I feel like kids who go to school,
1040.454625 1042.894625 they really get tested trial by fire.
1042.894625 1045.494625 Like, why do you believe what you believe?
1045.494625 1048.734625 And so I think there's, again, pros and cons
1048.734625 1051.814625 with every single form of education,
1051.814625 1056.694625 I think just for me, I'm trying to not
1056.694625 1060.374625 care as much about the education piece
1060.374625 1063.614625 as I am about who they're turning out to be.
1063.614625 1068.454625 And I think that can be a pro and a con sometimes.
1068.454625 1071.214625 Well, I would say to that point, just
1071.214625 1073.774625 as a word of encouragement for you,
1073.774625 1075.374625 they are where God wants them to be.
1075.374625 1077.454625 You are the teacher God wants them to have.
1077.454625 1079.254625 He's equipping you to do what you need to do.
1079.254625 1082.094625 So don't sell yourself short on that front.
1082.094625 1083.054625 Thanks.
1083.054625 1083.574625 One more thing.
1083.574625 1086.494625 I think another con real quick is,
1086.494625 1089.054625 and is that I wear two hats, right?
1089.054625 1091.894625 I wear the teacher hat and the mom hat.
1091.894625 1094.934625 And sometimes that can be really hard.
1094.934625 1099.414625 Like if we have a hard day doing school as I'm the teacher
1099.414625 1102.254625 and like trying to push through hard attitudes
1102.254625 1103.854625 or push through like, I don't know,
1103.854625 1105.974625 just a tough lesson or whatever,
1105.974625 1110.294625 then to switch to the mom hat after we've had a hard day
1110.294625 1111.694625 is really challenging.
1111.694625 1113.894625 And sometimes I get envious that like,
1113.894625 1116.734625 I don't have a bigger, almost like a division of church
1116.734625 1117.854625 and state.
1117.854625 1120.574625 They're still with me.
1120.574625 1122.294625 We're still having a hard day.
1122.294625 1124.334625 And I don't get to have that like, oh,
1124.334625 1127.374625 you had a hard day at school now come home and be with me
1127.374625 1128.734625 and we'll do life.
1128.734625 1130.334625 It's like, nope, that carries on.
1130.334625 1135.814625 And I think that can be really hard sometimes.
1135.814625 1138.014625 I think that's a great point.
1138.014625 1141.494625 Also, when you were talking through that,
1141.494625 1143.534625 I think what you said about, and Christina,
1143.534625 1145.294625 I would like to get your thoughts on this.
1145.294625 1149.734625 Maggie, what you said about how your kids aren't challenged
1149.734625 1152.374625 at a young age in terms of what they're believing
1152.374625 1154.934625 because they are surrounded by such a strong community
1154.934625 1156.494625 within your family.
1156.494625 1159.694625 I know my boys, one of my sons came home yesterday
1159.694625 1163.254625 and said, mom, we were talking at the lunch table
1163.254625 1165.934625 about hell and about God, he's in first grade,
1165.934625 1167.534625 about hell and about God.
1167.534625 1170.454625 And he said, everybody at the table said they believed
1170.454625 1172.174625 there's a God except for one.
1172.174625 1174.134625 And he said we came from monkeys.
1174.134625 1178.654625 So they are definitely facing this stuff early.
1178.654625 1182.174625 And to me, it's like the opposite side of the coin for you.
1182.174625 1185.054625 It's a pro and a con from my perspective.
1185.054625 1187.694625 I love that my kids are having these conversations,
1187.694625 1191.054625 but I also am very concerned that they're not equipped
1191.054625 1192.254625 to have them yet.
1192.254625 1193.094625 So I don't know, Christina,
1193.094625 1194.894625 if you have thoughts on that part of it.
1194.894625 1198.414625 - Yeah, I resonate so much with what you're both saying,
1198.414625 1201.334625 but especially what you just said, Mary Beth,
1201.334625 1205.014625 my middle daughter when she was in elementary school
1205.014625 1208.294625 just came home and tears one day and just said,
1208.294625 1210.734625 my friends don't believe in Jesus.
1210.734625 1214.494625 And she's just trying to tell them like you have to believe
1214.494625 1216.294625 in Jesus if you're going to heaven.
1216.294625 1221.134625 And so I totally agree they are really kind of,
1221.134625 1222.854625 I think Maggie said trial by fire.
1222.854625 1226.054625 Like they are, they're in it, you know,
1226.054625 1229.414625 from a young age and they're not equipped.
1229.414625 1231.734625 And yeah, it's true.
1231.734625 1234.214625 I don't really know any way around it.
1234.214625 1237.934625 But, you know, on one hand, it's good.
1237.934625 1239.694625 They're able to share what they believe.
1239.694625 1243.174625 And on the other hand, you're wondering like,
1243.174625 1246.934625 oh boy, what kind of damage control do we need to now go
1246.934625 1249.054625 back through and clean up from this?
1249.934625 1252.294625 And I just wanted to touch on one other thing Maggie said
1252.294625 1257.294625 that is such a, like such a good point Maggie that you made.
1257.294625 1259.894625 Well, first of all, so many good points that you made.
1259.894625 1263.814625 But I love that you said we're re-evaluating.
1263.814625 1265.454625 We're not sure we're making the right decision.
1265.454625 1267.694625 There's a hundred, a hundred different directions
1267.694625 1270.174625 you could go with your education.
1270.174625 1273.974625 But one thing that just really resonated with me was
1273.974625 1276.814625 how you said you're able with your kids at home
1276.814625 1279.934625 to protect them from kind of the social pressure
1279.934625 1281.894625 and maybe the damage that can come
1281.894625 1283.534625 from these social relationships.
1283.534625 1288.414625 And I think that's something that we so overlook.
1288.414625 1292.014625 And my first two children were boys and then I had a daughter.
1292.014625 1295.894625 And it's just so different with boys and girls.
1295.894625 1299.014625 And now my last child is also a daughter.
1299.014625 1304.014625 And that is a big like, I would trade quality
1304.774625 1307.494625 of her education to protect her soul
1307.494625 1311.414625 and to protect her from the mean girls
1311.414625 1313.454625 or from her becoming a mean girl.
1313.454625 1317.214625 Or, you know, so I think the social pressure
1317.214625 1322.214625 is I'm realizing a bigger piece of my equation now
1322.214625 1326.654625 in my decision making than it was with my first two children
1326.654625 1329.974625 who were boys and seem to be so much more aloof from it.
1329.974625 1332.574625 But I just wanted to kind of touch on that
1332.574625 1335.134625 'cause I think he brought it up as a point.
1335.134625 1339.114625 But for me, that's becoming a bigger and bigger issue.
1339.114625 1346.214625 - Yeah, it sounds like we're all just as you said,
1346.214625 1350.014625 I'm gonna say it again, constantly re-evaluating.
1350.014625 1351.814625 I know that I certainly am.
1351.814625 1354.254625 We certainly are Mary Beth and I discussed this,
1354.254625 1356.814625 I think last time about these are the decisions
1356.814625 1360.494625 we're making for now and there are all kinds of factors.
1360.494625 1363.094625 And even from year to year, sometimes a month to month
1363.094625 1364.734625 or day to day.
1364.734625 1368.254625 Yeah, you just wonder, is this the right path?
1368.254625 1370.374625 But that is the decision that each family
1370.374625 1371.814625 needs to make for themselves.
1371.814625 1376.454625 - And it leads into how we find community
1376.454625 1379.814625 as parents of children in education.
1379.814625 1381.894625 I mean, this right here is a snapshot of people,
1381.894625 1383.574625 four different people who have different,
1383.574625 1385.854625 we all have our own different educational backgrounds
1385.854625 1386.934625 that we're bringing to the table.
1386.934625 1389.654625 Our husbands have their own backgrounds.
1389.654625 1392.054625 We're doing it, some of us similarly,
1392.054625 1394.894625 some of it differently, but we're also all in community
1394.894625 1398.614625 together at the same church and the same area.
1398.614625 1401.254625 We're involved in a lot of the same things.
1401.254625 1403.414625 So maybe Maggie, you could talk about that.
1403.414625 1408.134625 How are you experiencing community in this specific area
1408.134625 1411.974625 in terms of educating your kids and how are you helping
1411.974625 1415.934625 your children find that Christian community
1415.934625 1418.174625 outside of just your family?
1418.174625 1421.734625 - I mean, I think it's taking, it has taken
1421.734625 1426.534625 a lot of intentionality because I am more rare,
1426.534625 1429.054625 or our family is more rare, right?
1429.054625 1431.014625 And what we've chosen to do.
1431.014625 1436.014625 So it's looked like finding a co-op of families
1436.014625 1441.494625 that are trying to do a similar education style as us,
1441.494625 1443.134625 which has been really helpful.
1443.134625 1445.734625 We're part of a co-op in Glenn Mills.
1445.734625 1448.654625 I think it's like 150 kids and 120 kids.
1448.654625 1451.614625 And it's been really special for my kids to feel like
1451.614625 1454.254625 they have a group of kids that are similar to them,
1454.254625 1456.894625 but they can get together and learn together
1456.894625 1459.814625 and experience a little bit of what it would be like
1459.814625 1461.494625 to be in a school.
1461.494625 1464.174625 It's kind of modeled after a school for a day.
1464.174625 1466.174625 And so I think that's been really helpful.
1466.174625 1471.174625 It's been really encouraging for me to see other moms
1471.734625 1475.734625 that love Jesus and are just trying their best.
1475.734625 1477.854625 I feel like that's all we're doing.
1477.854625 1480.774625 And then I think for me, it's really important
1480.774625 1484.094625 to find community in our church, right?
1484.094625 1488.214625 Our church is the backbone of our world.
1488.214625 1493.214625 And so it's great for me to have support from friends,
1493.214625 1494.694625 whether they homeschool or not.
1494.694625 1498.054625 Just to keep, I mean, I think we are all the four of us,
1498.054625 1500.614625 even are just women that love Jesus a lot
1500.614625 1503.894625 when our kids to know Jesus and live out the calling
1503.894625 1505.574625 that he has called us to.
1505.574625 1508.454625 And so I think it's really important for me to have that.
1508.454625 1510.854625 If I feel poured into and supported,
1510.854625 1514.054625 my kids are gonna feel that if I'm feeling taken care of.
1514.054625 1518.694625 And so just finding friends for them that know God
1518.694625 1522.654625 and are trying to support each other in their walks,
1522.654625 1526.294625 even at a really early age, because I think life
1526.294625 1529.254625 is just gonna get harder and harder for them,
1529.254625 1531.934625 as we've all experienced, as we get older,
1531.934625 1533.494625 life can be challenging.
1533.494625 1536.094625 And so if they feel like they have a community,
1536.094625 1539.214625 they can fall back on going through those challenges
1539.214625 1541.214625 is gonna be a lot easier.
1541.214625 1544.174625 And so just making sure that my kids feel surrounded,
1544.174625 1547.174625 we have a great, super great family situation
1547.174625 1550.334625 on both sides that are very supportive and loving.
1550.334625 1553.694625 And I think my husband was saying he likes this term,
1553.694625 1555.614625 a morally thick community, right?
1555.614625 1560.454625 If our kids are surrounded by a community that loves the Lord
1560.454625 1562.374625 and we're all trying to do the same thing,
1562.374625 1564.654625 even if the avenues are different,
1564.654625 1567.694625 I think that that's where people feel loved and supported.
1567.694625 1572.294625 And so that's kind of how I feel the community around me.
1572.294625 1574.094625 - That's great, thanks.
1574.094625 1576.334625 Christine, what would be your answer to that question?
1576.334625 1580.774625 How have you found community for yourself as a Christian parent
1580.774625 1584.734625 and then also trying to help your kids find that as well?
1584.734625 1586.654625 - Yeah, I think that's kind of the distinction
1586.654625 1591.334625 that has been hard is that I have found great community.
1591.334625 1595.014625 I feel like I have, through Bible study,
1595.014625 1597.094625 I mean, I've been in Bible study with each of you guys,
1597.094625 1600.134625 I think for many years, but through Bible study,
1600.134625 1603.734625 through moms and prayer, I feel like I'm well supported
1603.734625 1605.294625 and I have great community.
1605.294625 1608.614625 I do not feel like my kids, especially
1608.614625 1611.014625 through the high school years had great community.
1611.014625 1616.014625 I would say it was really more of like a drought situation,
1616.014625 1620.494625 especially for my oldest three through their schools.
1620.494625 1625.054625 Now, within the church, we did have or my first two boys,
1625.054625 1626.974625 we did have what we called the boys group
1626.974625 1630.174625 and it was a group of dads and boys
1630.174625 1632.854625 and they met on a weekly basis
1632.854625 1636.614625 and that was the community that my boys grew up with.
1636.614625 1639.334625 Those friends will be their lifelong friends.
1639.334625 1643.054625 They did everything together, camping trips and church
1643.054625 1646.134625 and serving and bike trips and, I mean,
1646.134625 1648.854625 they had a great time together.
1648.854625 1652.454625 But within our school, I would say,
1652.454625 1655.934625 like I could count on one hand their friends
1655.934625 1658.774625 and honestly, like when they come back from college
1658.774625 1661.454625 and now some of them have graduated even from college,
1661.454625 1664.094625 they're from their schools, literally no one
1664.094625 1666.094625 that they want to connect with.
1666.094625 1671.094625 So that is sad, but they do, I mean,
1671.094625 1674.054625 they're very socially adjusted at this point.
1674.054625 1676.574625 They've made great friends in college.
1676.574625 1679.054625 They went to Christian school for college
1679.054625 1683.334625 and really I feel like I just have this visual of them
1683.334625 1684.494625 that when they were in high school,
1684.494625 1686.254625 they're just afraid to spread their wings
1686.254625 1688.974625 like these frail little butterfly wings
1688.974625 1690.734625 and they got off to college
1690.734625 1694.654625 and were in a safer environment and really just soared.
1694.654625 1698.814625 So I don't know, you know, like would they have soared
1698.814625 1702.414625 if they hadn't been in that kind of sheltered place
1702.414625 1704.774625 where they were afraid to spread their wings?
1704.774625 1706.174625 I don't know.
1706.174625 1710.734625 But high school, high school is for my kids.
1710.734625 1712.534625 I know it's not the case for everyone,
1712.534625 1716.974625 but high school for my kids has been very, very hard
1716.974625 1719.614625 as far as finding Christian community, so.
1720.494625 1724.694625 - Yeah, and as a parent of elementary school students
1724.694625 1726.574625 who's looking ahead to the future.
1726.574625 1729.494625 I feel like our moms and prayer group
1729.494625 1731.294625 is very, always very eye-opening for me.
1731.294625 1732.694625 That's why I'm very grateful for it
1732.694625 1734.294625 just from the community perspective
1734.294625 1736.654625 that I can kind of see what's coming
1736.654625 1740.894625 but I can also see that God is still working.
1740.894625 1742.774625 He held on to your kids, Christine, you know?
1742.774625 1743.614625 - Yes.
1743.614625 1745.694625 - He didn't let them go, he had a plan.
1745.694625 1750.134625 - Yeah, you know, and as hard as it was with their friendships,
1750.134625 1752.094625 there were Christian teachers at that school
1752.094625 1754.534625 that were really a source of encouragement to them.
1754.534625 1758.574625 And so, yeah, you know, so there's,
1758.574625 1760.814625 I mean, there are some bright lights in the darkness,
1760.814625 1763.894625 but I don't know, high school is tough.
1763.894625 1766.894625 It's, I mean, and I think high school
1766.894625 1770.894625 is getting tough for a year by year, what these kids face.
1770.894625 1775.254625 And I mean, I think my oldest, when he went through high school,
1775.254625 1777.334625 it's gonna have a completely different experience
1777.334625 1780.134625 than my youngest by the time she reaches high school.
1780.134625 1782.654625 So just the whole landscape of high school
1782.654625 1786.014625 and education in general is changing so much.
1786.014625 1790.054625 Yeah, that's kind of discouraging from what I share,
1790.054625 1792.454625 but it is the reality.
1792.454625 1795.054625 I would say they did survive it
1795.054625 1798.014625 and they've all come out on the other side.
1798.014625 1800.814625 God is faithful, like you said.
1800.814625 1803.334625 And, but it does, in a way,
1803.334625 1807.814625 throw the onus back on the parents to build that community
1807.814625 1808.654625 within our home.
1808.654625 1809.854625 Thankfully, we had a lot of children.
1809.854625 1812.614625 So there were plenty of people within our home
1812.614625 1814.134625 that they could interact with.
1814.134625 1816.694625 Yeah, but it was lonely, it was a lonely time.
1816.694625 1819.414625 Sarah, I feel like I'm dominating.
1819.414625 1821.494625 So if you wanna say something, feel free.
1821.494625 1824.494625 I am really enjoying listening to both of you
1824.494625 1826.934625 share these experiences.
1826.934625 1830.254625 And maybe it is because, as you mentioned,
1830.254625 1832.494625 Christine, the four of us have known each other
1832.494625 1834.454625 and have been in various Bible study.
1834.454625 1835.734625 It's just different things together,
1835.734625 1839.734625 but I almost feel like as I'm listening,
1839.734625 1841.974625 I so resonate with everything you're saying
1841.974625 1844.734625 because even though our experiences are different,
1844.734625 1846.374625 our experiences are the same.
1846.374625 1851.294625 We are coming from the same place.
1851.294625 1854.774625 Like Maggie said, we just all love Jesus
1854.774625 1857.614625 and we want our kids to know Jesus.
1859.254625 1861.934625 And how that happens?
1861.934625 1864.574625 Boy, tooth and nail, skin of our teeth.
1864.574625 1866.294625 I mean, every day, right?
1866.294625 1870.374625 Just, especially when it comes to this,
1870.374625 1875.374625 my desire is for my son to take hold of the faith for himself.
1875.374625 1881.054625 I often think about the verses that Paul wrote to Timothy,
1881.054625 1884.174625 and he talks about the faith of your grandmother, Lois,
1884.174625 1885.694625 which my grandmother was Lois.
1885.694625 1887.574625 So that's always special to me.
1887.574625 1891.494625 But that's what I want him to have some day
1891.494625 1893.054625 when he looks back and says,
1893.054625 1895.574625 "Wasn't my mom's faith, it wasn't my dad's faith,
1895.574625 1899.494625 "it wasn't my grandfather's faith, it was my faith."
1899.494625 1901.494625 But how do we do that, ladies?
1901.494625 1902.574625 How do we do that?
1902.574625 1907.894625 I wasn't prepared to come with answers to that.
1907.894625 1908.694625 Okay, yeah.
1908.694625 1911.654625 And maybe that's just a,
1911.654625 1914.334625 I think that's more just,
1914.334625 1915.774625 well, it's not a rhetorical question
1915.774625 1918.214625 because gosh darn it, we need to answer it.
1918.214625 1919.054625 Yeah.
1919.054625 1921.494625 But that's the struggle, right?
1921.494625 1925.254625 Having our kids grab hold of that,
1925.254625 1929.094625 which will sustain them through their life.
1929.094625 1931.174625 And whatever the root, whatever the root.
1931.174625 1933.374625 Mary Beth and I discussed the other day
1933.374625 1935.054625 about our own educational experiences,
1935.054625 1937.614625 and at the time, as I was going through it,
1937.614625 1939.894625 they did not agree with the choices my parents made,
1939.894625 1943.454625 but in hindsight, I loved it.
1943.454625 1944.894625 They thought that it worked out just perfectly,
1944.894625 1946.774625 and of course that's confirmation bias maybe,
1946.774625 1949.734625 but it just shows that God is at work.
1949.734625 1951.094625 And he is faithful.
1951.094625 1953.534625 Yeah, it's true.
1953.534625 1956.654625 And I'll just add, Sarah and I talked about this too,
1956.654625 1959.614625 but just to get Maggie and Christine slots on it.
1959.614625 1963.174625 So I kind of have a mix of homeschool,
1963.174625 1964.734625 public school, Christian school background,
1964.734625 1967.094625 and I was telling Sarah,
1967.094625 1968.534625 I came out of high school.
1968.534625 1969.494625 My high school years,
1969.494625 1972.494625 I was learning about every major world religion
1972.494625 1976.614625 and how Christianity compares to them and why it's true.
1976.614625 1979.174625 And this was at school in my day to day.
1979.174625 1983.214625 And so I was being surrounded by influences
1983.214625 1986.094625 that were reaffirming what I was learning at home.
1986.094625 1988.254625 And there's a part of me that grieves
1988.254625 1990.734625 that my boys don't have that
1990.734625 1992.774625 and won't necessarily have that.
1992.774625 1996.094625 If they say public school, they will not have that.
1996.094625 1996.934625 What I had.
1996.934625 2000.334625 And so part of it too for my own wrestling
2000.334625 2002.654625 with this as a parent is,
2002.654625 2005.654625 and this is true across a lot of veins of parenting.
2005.654625 2010.174625 Being willing to let go of control and saying,
2010.174625 2011.774625 okay, God, like my children's experience
2011.774625 2013.574625 will not be my experience.
2013.574625 2015.094625 And that is okay.
2015.094625 2016.254625 And even Maggie, for you,
2016.254625 2017.334625 even though you were homeschooled,
2017.334625 2018.654625 I'm sure it looks very different
2018.654625 2020.254625 for how your kids are being homeschooled
2020.254625 2022.174625 than how you grew up and what was available
2022.174625 2024.574625 and how it was done and all these things.
2024.574625 2026.654625 And you're just, you know, you're not your parents.
2026.654625 2028.454625 So you're gonna do it differently.
2028.454625 2030.494625 So I don't know if that makes sense to you all,
2030.494625 2033.694625 but that's kind of my constant struggle too is,
2033.694625 2036.574625 I know what I have and I know what my boys don't have
2036.574625 2039.414625 and how do we know we're making the right choice.
2039.414625 2040.934625 I mean, I think it's a,
2040.934625 2043.534625 I don't think that I'm ever gonna feel
2043.534625 2046.294625 a hundred percent sure in it,
2046.294625 2048.494625 but isn't that the lock of faith, you know?
2048.494625 2053.974625 - And I think that something that God revealed to me
2053.974625 2057.534625 earlier this year was that I am not God.
2058.374625 2060.934625 - I'm shocking, I know, spoiler alert.
2060.934625 2062.094625 - Oh, you learned that too.
2062.094625 2067.574625 - But it was really freeing because I think,
2067.574625 2071.894625 especially because I've chosen in some ways,
2071.894625 2075.454625 I think homeschooling can be the harder path
2075.454625 2077.254625 and I'm not saying that to be like,
2077.254625 2078.614625 I'm holier or whatever.
2078.614625 2081.934625 I just mean it can just be so much more challenging
2081.934625 2086.494625 in the fact that there's a lot that goes into that.
2086.494625 2089.814625 So I think for me there's been a control piece
2089.814625 2091.534625 that has come along with that.
2091.534625 2094.694625 And it was the most freeing day.
2094.694625 2097.374625 I went on a silent retreat and the Lord was like,
2097.374625 2100.534625 you are not God, like let go of their futures.
2100.534625 2102.214625 You cannot control.
2102.214625 2104.094625 You might even think that you have control
2104.094625 2105.294625 because they're home with you
2105.294625 2107.934625 and you're trying to protect them from all this stuff
2107.934625 2110.254625 that's going on, but at the end of the day,
2110.254625 2113.454625 sin is still there and I am still God.
2113.454625 2116.014625 And it was the most freeing day
2116.014625 2118.014625 and hopefully I can hold on to that for forever.
2118.014625 2122.214625 But just like recognizing that he is in control
2122.214625 2126.054625 and their path is there as the one that God has picked for them.
2126.054625 2128.174625 And if we end up sending them somewhere else
2128.174625 2130.614625 or whatever, he's still in control.
2130.614625 2134.454625 And so that was such a cool moment that I hope to again,
2134.454625 2136.454625 hold on to for a long time.
2136.454625 2137.454625 - Yeah, I love that.
2137.454625 2141.254625 I think also, I look at my youngest daughter
2141.254625 2144.334625 and I'm like, are we really going to do this again with her?
2144.334625 2146.094625 It was hard with my older kids
2146.094625 2148.534625 and are we going to do this again
2148.534625 2150.614625 when there are other decisions to make?
2150.614625 2152.054625 And I don't know if we are or aren't
2152.054625 2154.054625 with a year by year, but a decision.
2154.054625 2159.054625 But I think just to realize it like struggle isn't all bad.
2159.054625 2164.014625 It's not, you know, I see how my children thrive
2164.014625 2165.494625 when they went away to college.
2165.494625 2169.254625 And it's like, is that, I know I touched on this earlier,
2169.254625 2171.494625 but would they have thrived that much
2171.494625 2174.774625 if they had grown up in a Christian school?
2174.774625 2177.694625 Would they have found it to be so refreshing
2177.694625 2179.454625 to go to a Christian college?
2179.454625 2181.014625 Or would they have felt smothered?
2181.014625 2183.534625 And I think to Maggie's point, we aren't God.
2183.534625 2187.334625 We don't know how these different phases lead
2187.334625 2188.974625 into the next phase.
2188.974625 2192.254625 How this is a time of training that leads
2192.254625 2193.894625 into this time of flourishing
2193.894625 2196.094625 or this was a time of struggle
2196.094625 2201.014625 that now God is giving you a time of rejoicing afterwards.
2201.014625 2205.894625 You know, all of it is kind of a part of the Christian life.
2205.894625 2209.574625 I mean, it's in scripture over and over the different seasons.
2209.574625 2212.814625 And I think that in my mind,
2212.814625 2216.174625 I want to protect my kids from like the painful seasons,
2216.174625 2221.374625 but that's also not the right choice either.
2221.374625 2224.014625 So I don't know not saying any of us are doing it.
2224.014625 2226.894625 I mean, we of course want to protect our kids from heartache
2226.894625 2228.534625 and struggle any chance we get,
2228.534625 2231.614625 but I'm not willingly adding to their struggle
2231.614625 2232.774625 or I'm not intending to.
2232.774625 2235.254625 I might be, but I'm not intending to.
2235.254625 2236.574625 So I don't know.
2236.574625 2240.734625 I think just to realize that there is a purpose
2240.734625 2243.614625 even when we struggle and have the hard days.
2243.614625 2245.374625 - Preach, girl.
2245.374625 2246.614625 I love that.
2246.614625 2253.694625 - Well, and maybe that's where we can end on an encouraging note.
2253.934625 2256.974625 Of where do you see God at work
2256.974625 2261.054625 in your children's current educational environments?
2261.054625 2263.334625 How are you seeing God show up there?
2263.334625 2266.494625 - Maggie.
2266.494625 2270.694625 - I thought you were going to go for it.
2270.694625 2277.094625 - You know, I was trying to think through this question.
2277.094625 2279.814625 And I just, I mean, it kind of goes along
2279.814625 2282.694625 with what we have been saying is just every day
2282.694625 2285.934625 is another day in their journey and in their testimony.
2285.934625 2289.614625 Every day we are being sanctified through our kids
2289.614625 2292.614625 and every day they are being sanctified through us
2292.614625 2294.414625 and ultimately obviously through God.
2294.414625 2298.014625 But gosh, just being a parent,
2298.014625 2299.774625 this isn't even about education, right?
2299.774625 2302.614625 Like just being a parent and dealing with your kids
2302.614625 2304.494625 is so sanctifying.
2304.494625 2308.694625 And so it's been a privilege to get a front row seat
2308.694625 2312.454625 into watching my kids learn things for the first time
2312.454625 2316.414625 and grasp concepts and having them maybe understand
2316.414625 2318.334625 more about God's character.
2318.334625 2322.534625 But yeah, I don't really have like a big grandiose answer
2322.534625 2325.414625 besides the fact that just every day is a new day
2325.414625 2328.294625 and a new journey and a new lesson.
2328.294625 2331.214625 And it's fun sometimes to watch,
2331.214625 2333.534625 but it's also, it can be really painful.
2333.534625 2337.294625 And so just kind of what Christine was saying
2337.294625 2340.414625 is God is using every day,
2340.414625 2344.854625 whether it's painful or joyous to bring them closer to God
2344.854625 2346.974625 and I'm in for the journey.
2346.974625 2350.014625 And hopefully he uses me somehow.
2350.014625 2355.334625 - Yeah, no, I totally resonate with that Maggie.
2355.334625 2359.414625 I mean, I don't think I could add anything to that.
2359.414625 2363.134625 Just I think it is their journey
2363.134625 2365.654625 and it's also my journey, their education.
2365.654625 2368.694625 It is me also listening to the Lord
2368.694625 2371.334625 and me having these kind of conversations
2371.334625 2375.534625 that are so just empowering and eye-opening
2375.534625 2378.774625 and I want them to be teachable
2378.774625 2381.134625 and I want me to be teachable
2381.134625 2385.454625 and I want to be willing to go where the Lord leads us,
2385.454625 2386.334625 as a family.
2386.334625 2390.334625 And yeah, so I love like getting to,
2390.334625 2391.294625 I mean, I think Maggie,
2391.294625 2392.894625 I think I may have talked to each of you
2392.894625 2396.734625 about education in months past about choices
2396.734625 2398.214625 and are we making the right ones?
2398.214625 2401.174625 And you know, we each have had conversations
2401.174625 2402.814625 and we've landed on different paths
2402.814625 2405.094625 and I think that's just the beauty of it
2405.094625 2409.214625 is that God is on each of these paths with us.
2409.214625 2411.374625 He's with each of our kids, whether they walk
2411.374625 2412.734625 the halls of a public school
2412.734625 2414.974625 or down the hall in their house.
2414.974625 2418.814625 I mean, he's right there with them and yeah, so.
2418.814625 2422.934625 - I think that would be an interesting question
2422.934625 2425.134625 for us to answer to Mary Beth.
2425.134625 2426.694625 Since we're all four friends here,
2426.694625 2430.054625 let's dole it out and I'll answer first
2430.054625 2431.734625 because I've been thinking about what my answer
2431.734625 2433.094625 that question would be.
2433.094625 2434.854625 So how have I seen God at work
2434.854625 2437.254625 in my son's education in the public school?
2437.254625 2444.254625 Two ways, one is ending up at his elementary school
2444.254625 2447.254625 in this district that was not gonna be our first choice,
2447.254625 2449.254625 but through friends, I think I shared this
2449.254625 2451.054625 on our last episode.
2451.054625 2454.014625 He ended up in the school that he was supposed to be in
2454.014625 2455.974625 and then even in middle school,
2455.974625 2458.534625 I was just really struggling and questioning.
2458.534625 2461.414625 I think I talked to you about this, Chris, a lot of Christine,
2461.414625 2463.734625 but we found the mountain biking team
2463.734625 2467.334625 and that was such a clear answer from God,
2467.334625 2470.174625 for him, for me, to build community
2470.174625 2472.694625 and to even come together with other Christian families
2472.694625 2474.414625 within that community.
2474.414625 2477.734625 So I would say those are clear signs
2477.734625 2480.614625 and then the other thing is that he has been able
2480.614625 2483.814625 to make connections with friends at school
2483.814625 2487.054625 that also attend church and that's been really sweet, too.
2487.054625 2490.574625 - I feel like I have a very long answer to this question.
2490.574625 2492.494625 So I'm gonna try to pick a short answer.
2492.494625 2499.334625 One way I see God working is bringing more people
2499.334625 2503.814625 to either back to church or to church
2503.814625 2506.734625 that are in our school community has nothing to do with me,
2506.734625 2510.134625 but I've just noticed that God has been moving there
2510.134625 2512.414625 and it's really encouraging to see
2512.414625 2515.094625 that just in a macro level.
2515.094625 2519.334625 And then specifically with my boys, I alluded to this earlier,
2519.334625 2522.814625 but the conversations that they are having with their friends
2522.814625 2525.014625 and they're thinking through things for themselves,
2525.014625 2526.854625 part of that is just the age they are
2526.854625 2528.574625 and they're starting to think more for themselves
2528.574625 2530.414625 and think through things.
2530.414625 2532.814625 But being able to get the front seat to that,
2532.814625 2535.014625 that they're willing to come home and process those things.
2535.014625 2536.414625 This is what I'm hearing about church.
2536.414625 2539.254625 This is what I'm hearing about God is hell real.
2539.254625 2541.374625 People say it's not, we know it is.
2541.374625 2544.254625 Wrestling through those conversations with them,
2544.254625 2546.534625 there's no clear sign to me that the Holy Spirit
2546.534625 2550.454625 is present and active and doing something in them,
2550.454625 2553.094625 which as we've said, that's what we want for them, right?
2553.094625 2556.414625 So I don't know what their paths are gonna look like
2556.414625 2560.614625 in their lives, but when God gives me those little glimpses
2560.614625 2563.174625 of, I'm here, I'm working,
2563.174625 2566.934625 those are the encouragement to me, I think of that.
2566.934625 2569.094625 And they're still young enough
2569.094625 2571.614625 that they will come talk to me about these things.
2571.614625 2574.094625 (laughs)
2574.094625 2576.054625 Well, with any luck, they'll continue to keep coming
2576.054625 2577.054625 to talk to us.
2577.054625 2583.174625 Well, are there any final thoughts or questions?
2583.174625 2587.694625 The only thing I would say is when I was thinking about,
2587.694625 2590.014625 because this has been a conversation my husband and I have had
2590.014625 2593.414625 and I am sure, like I said, we'll continue to have it.
2593.414625 2596.094625 And as Christine, you've been talking about it.
2596.094625 2599.214625 And the thing I kept coming back to is just like
2599.214625 2603.294625 knowing your why, right, like of which choice you're in
2603.294625 2608.294625 and what is that doing for you, for your kid?
2608.294625 2611.974625 What is that impacting in their heart and their faith?
2611.974625 2613.854625 'Cause in the long run, I don't think,
2613.854625 2615.454625 I mean, I know we care about education,
2615.454625 2618.454625 obviously it's important to be well educated,
2618.454625 2621.574625 but at the end of the day, I think we mostly care about
2621.574625 2624.054625 who they are and who they're gonna turn out to be.
2624.054625 2628.774625 And so just understanding that whatever we decide
2628.774625 2633.214625 as parents is like what's best for them is the whole kid
2633.214625 2635.934625 versus just their education.
2635.934625 2639.174625 I think that's like the part that I keep coming back to.
2639.174625 2641.214625 And I think that'd be my advice to anybody who's thinking
2641.214625 2644.814625 about, you know, whatever, constantly debating it.
2644.814625 2646.934625 So I think that's my only final thought.
2646.934625 2648.414625 (laughs)
2648.414625 2649.814625 Yeah.
2649.814625 2654.814625 Well, I think my only advice that I would have is to look
2654.814625 2659.254625 at like the long-term kind of echoing what Maggie's saying.
2659.254625 2664.134625 Long-term, who do we want these children,
2664.134625 2667.374625 what kind of citizens do we want them to grow into?
2667.374625 2670.614625 Leaders and people who aren't afraid of things,
2670.614625 2672.574625 people who are committed to Christ, you know,
2672.574625 2677.174625 people who are resilient to some of these long-term,
2677.174625 2679.574625 you know, the struggle may be hard today
2679.574625 2682.454625 or it may be hard for the next three years,
2682.454625 2685.654625 but long-term is the why worth it.
2685.654625 2688.734625 So thanks.
2688.734625 2692.574625 I like that idea of the why, asking yourself,
2692.574625 2697.574625 making sure that you understand what is the why
2697.574625 2702.214625 and is that still being adequately addressed
2702.214625 2703.854625 in my education choice?
2703.854625 2705.254625 Is this still the right path?
2706.494625 2711.494625 And I'll couch this, too, with saying we live in a place
2711.494625 2714.974625 and a time where we get to make choices like this,
2714.974625 2717.294625 which is a huge gift in and of itself.
2717.294625 2719.374625 And I know none of us discount that either.
2719.374625 2724.694625 So just being thankful that we have options,
2724.694625 2725.974625 I think is part of it, too.
2725.974625 2730.854625 But we appreciate you all being willing to be vulnerable
2730.854625 2733.934625 about these things and talk about these things.
2733.934625 2737.174625 And I think you have wonderful children,
2737.174625 2739.334625 so I think you're doing a good job, ladies.
2739.334625 2740.334625 - I agree.
2740.334625 2741.334625 - Yeah.
2741.334625 2743.534625 - Oh, this was fun, thank you.
2743.534625 2745.054625 Thanks for having us on.
2745.054625 2746.574625 - And you're welcome.
2746.574625 2750.454625 Thanks for being willing to be interviewed.
2750.454625 2756.094625 Well, friends, thank you again so much for your time.
2756.094625 2759.934625 I really enjoyed our conversation and discussion
2759.934625 2763.694625 and maybe we can get together and talk about something else
2763.694625 2767.534625 again sometime because I feel like I got a lot out of this,
2767.534625 2769.694625 just in this hour with you.
2769.694625 2771.614625 Listeners, thanks for tuning in.
2771.614625 2774.054625 I'm Sarah.
2774.054625 2775.214625 - I'm Mary Beth.
2775.214625 2776.854625 - I'm Christine.
2776.854625 2778.054625 - I'm Maggie.
2778.054625 2780.694625 - And this is Trustworthy.