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This is Trustworthy.

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Hi, I'm Sarah.

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And I'm Mary Beth.

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Join us for Conversations in Community,

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established by a trustworthy God.

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Hello, Sarah.

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Well, hello there, Mary Beth.

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I switched it up on you.

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You did.

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Things are feeling different today.

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They are feeling different today.

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It's cold and rainy.

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It's December.

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We're into the holiday season.

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Things are moving right along.

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The year is slipping by.

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It is.

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It's slipping by very quickly.

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I have a question for you, Sarah.

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Oh, I'm all ears.

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Have you watched any Christmas movies yet?

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Yes.

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Any Hallmark movies?

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Yes.

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(laughing)

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Not many, I usually save those for my vacation.

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I think I've mentioned before,

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like take a week's break in January after Christmas is over

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and lay on the couch in front of the fireplace

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and watch Hallmark Christmas movies

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or other Christmas movies.

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I think there's some great ones

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on the Great American Family Network.

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- Yeah, we've started watching those the past couple years

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And I feel obligated to myself to say that

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me 15 years ago would be shocked to hear myself admit

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that I watched these movies

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because I really didn't start watching them

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until I got married.

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But I can handle them in small doses.

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The tropes sometimes get a little too much for me.

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- I usually limit myself to just the holiday season

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and I agree.

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Some of them are better than others, for sure.

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which actually brings up one that I saw a few years ago

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called a Godwink Christmas and not to advertise

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for these Christmas movies, but it did appreciate it.

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I had Kathie Lee Gifford in it.

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- Oh yeah.

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- Yeah, and I was really surprised and happy

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that they had this on Hallmark,

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but I liked this idea of this Godwink

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that she was talking about in the movie.

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And I've actually used that word since then,

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at random moments.

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I did a little more research

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and there's actually a whole book series written

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by Squire Rushnell and Louise Duart about Godwinks.

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And I found it pretty interesting.

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So I did sort of a deep dive.

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We do love research,

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which I think also makes us good podcasters, right?

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- Well, yeah, we'll go with that.

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Of course it does.

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(laughing)

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belay any sort of weird obsession or thought process.

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Anyway.

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So what is a Godwink, Sarah?

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Well, that's a great question.

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I'm glad you asked.

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Thanks for setting me up.

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You're such a good friend.

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It's interesting because this book was written right before September 11th, 2001.

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It was going to the publisher right after the attacks happened.

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And they kind of reimagined the book because the authors realized that even in the face

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of such tragedy, many Americans started to look for deeper meaning in their lives and

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to make connections with the people around them.

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That was a pretty interesting phenomenon.

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And they came up with this idea, this concept of Godwinks.

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And this is what the beginning of the book has in it.

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A Godwink is not a coincidence.

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is a sequence of events that, although accidental, seems to have been planned or arranged,

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but as the author asks, begs the question, "Who arranges it?"

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Well, God does.

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And they came up with the word "Godwink" because "to wink" means to give a signal or to express a message.

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The definition of a Godwink is "not a coincidence, but an event or experience,

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so astonishing it must be of divine origin."

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and it's another term for answered prayer.

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So I found that pretty interesting.

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And I started thinking back to the Godwinks

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that I've experienced in my life using that definition.

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And it reminded me a lot of our conversation we've had

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in the past about Ebenezers.

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Yeah, that's what I was thinking of

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when we've been discussing this whole idea is

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sometimes you don't realize it until hindsight.

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that that's what it was.

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Sometimes we do recognize it in the moment.

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I think we've both experienced some of that,

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but sometimes it takes some perspective

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to intentionally look back and mark

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something that God has done.

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In the Old Testament, it was Samuel.

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This is where we get this idea of Ebenezer's

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after the Philistines basically were thwarted by God

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and the Israelites defeated them.

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He very intentionally took a stone and marked what God had done.

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And for Samuel 712, it says, "Samuel took a stone and set it up between

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Mizpa and Shen.

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He named it Ebenezer, saying, 'Thus far the Lord has helped us.'"

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And modern day Christians will often do this.

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I have done this in physically taking a stone, written a word or something

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that will remind me of something that God has done as a visual, physical reminder that

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the Lord has helped us with this. He's been present here. These are the ways he's been

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faithful. So I kind of like how those two ideas work together. You're kind of looking

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for where God's been gracious, maybe marking it with something intentional.

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Yeah. I also want to say, I think a lot of modern-day Christians use tattoos as eminizers.

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Oh, that's true. I know some friends who have done that.

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In Romans 1.20 it says, "For since the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities, his

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eternal power in divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from what has

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been made so that people are without excuse."

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And while I know that that was one of Paul's arguments for, "Hey, everybody should know

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who God is, I do also think that God's eternal power and divine nature can be clearly seen.

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Again, those are invisible qualities, but the evidence of that can be clearly seen.

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These answers to prayer, these Godwinks that show up in our life are kind of a way of seeing

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the evidence in our own lives.

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Yeah, not to get too doctrinal, but there's these two ideas of general revelation and

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specific revelation. General revelation being what God has revealed to everyone, which I think is

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some of what Paul is talking about there, that if we really look around us at what God has created,

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we are without excuse to say, of course, there is a Creator. But then there's also specific

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revelation where God is revealing things specifically to us or to those who are following

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him and have the Holy Spirit. Then there's also a specific revelation where there might be things

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the Holy Spirit reveals to us directly in our walk with the Lord. There might be things that

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are only revealed to the people of the Lord once they know him. And that ties into what we're talking

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about here that one might think of these Godwinks or whatever you might title them as some of that

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specific revelation. If here's a very clear moment message answered prayer from God himself.

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Yeah, I agree. Sometimes some of these Godwinks are little things. I think of an Ebenezer as a

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very momentous occasion or a big decision or like a clear God defeated the Philistines. That was a

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big thing. But there are also little ways that he works, little moments of grace, little glimpses,

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little things. And I like this idea of keeping track of those because it can let us know

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how much God loves us and how much he's looking over our life. Just little things. I just think

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so many things in my life that I just look back.

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I'm like, wow, God, you didn't need to work the details out

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to help me have all the same color, white, matching

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used appliances in my little kitchen

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that I was trying to fix up on a shoe string years ago.

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But you did, God.

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It's just funny that these little things work out.

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But I know for myself specifically,

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kind of a big deal in my life is that I'm married

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man. The story of how we met is pretty interesting. We were matched on e-harmonie and at first

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I was like, "Oh, he's just a little outside of the criteria headset," but he looked interesting

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and when we got to the emails or whatever, the open communication that you sent back

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and forth, his email was pretty interesting and well written. So I respond--

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Well written, always important to Sarah.

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Yes, exactly. I can't, I try not to judge when people have improper grammar and spelling,

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but boy, it's like, I like, yes. Anyway, yes, important to me. Yes, good writing is important

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to me. But when I responded to his first email, I had added a PS and I just wrote 42. And I

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thought, okay, he's either going to know what it means or he's not going to know

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what it means and whatever.

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Like I'm just going to throw that out there because I felt like I needed to.

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I don't know what that means.

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Okay.

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Well, I'm curious to hear the rest of this.

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So then the next time he wrote back to me, he wrote me a lovely email and,

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and at the very end he wrote a PS and his PS was, do you know where your towel is?

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And I was like, wow, he gets it.

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So when I responded back on my PS, I wrote, don't panic.

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So by now, those of you who know

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about Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

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know that we're referring to that.

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And those of you that don't, that's okay.

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- No, this is a new insight into your relationship.

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- Yes. - I love it.

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- That was one of those little things that I was like,

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okay, this is interesting.

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And people will be like, oh, you can't base an entire marriage

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on the fact that you both like hitchhiked our sky to the galaxy.

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That is absolutely right, which is why I kept praying and I had my family

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praying and my girlfriends praying, my small group praying, my pastor praying.

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And then pretty soon another little Godwink, so to speak, came up.

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It just so happened that throughout our relationship, every time I would pray,

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something would happen.

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For example, the story of Ruth and Boaz is really special to me.

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He had no idea about this at that time, but I had held out hope that maybe I would have another marriage after being widowed.

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And he just happened to send me some pictures of the first hand illuminated Bible that had been done in thousands of years or something like that.

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He had gone to see it and taken some pictures of the beautiful illustrations and the ones that he happened to send me were pictures of Ruth and Boas.

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Just randomly.

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Those are just two tiny little examples of how we connected

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and also how I just knew that this was the man that I was supposed to marry.

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Yeah, those little confirmations.

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That's interesting.

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Do you have any specific little glimpses of God's grace or answered prayer?

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Yeah, a couple of different things came to mind.

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And after hearing you explain it, I'm thinking, oh, I was thinking more about

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Big things, maybe more times that I felt like I directly heard from God.

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Oh, well, you can share that too.

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Okay.

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So.

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The first I'll share is from when I was in college.

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An opportunity came up for me to study abroad, and I wasn't sure if I should do it.

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I would have to take out a loan and pay for it myself and all these things.

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It was going to be my last semester of college.

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which I'd already transferred.

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So I was like, do I really need to leave when I haven't even been here that long?

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All these thoughts are going through my head.

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Didn't know if I should do it or not.

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I'm being a good, diligent.

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Daughter of my father, making a pros and cons list,

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praying it through all the things.

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And on the deadline day of when you have to turn in your application.

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This is back in the day when you physically had to walk a piece of paper to an office.

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Whoa. I know, right?

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I just prayed. I said, you know what, Lord, before I go in and turn this in, if there is any reason,

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you know, I should not be pursuing this, please make it clear. And I just vividly remember walking

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up the steps to that study abroad office and having the most tangible sense of peace that I can

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remember in my life up to that point of do it. You've got it. Like I'm with you. This is it. Like

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in a lot of different ways.

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And it was just that nudge from God saying,

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"Yeah, I'm gonna give you this good thing."

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And it's okay, and you can accept it.

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So that's one of the ones that stands out in my mind.

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I think another one is when I was in my late 20s

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and still very single, can you be very single?

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Yes, you can, because I had never not been single

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at that point in my life.

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And just battling with a lot of the is is this ever going to happen for me?

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Thoughts and just lying in my bed and it wasn't audible.

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It wasn't an audible voice, but it was.

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It was the Holy Spirit.

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Prompting me with the simple question, do you trust me?

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And it wasn't an answer of, yes, you'll get married someday

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or no, you won't get married someday.

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It was just a, do you trust me?

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And that helped bring me out of my funk and my woe and my self pity saying, yeah,

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I've trusted you with everything else up to this point. I just need to keep trusting you with this.

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But again, not knowing what the outcome would be, but knowing that I could trust Him.

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Those are two that come to my mind. But I like that you were kind of doing the

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little things along the way. So now I'm trying to think of some of those.

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I've said this before at the risk of being a broken record, but to know whether you're making

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the right decision, there is following God's word. There is taking advice from Christian

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brothers and sisters that have good wisdom. And there's also the trend of the circumstances.

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This category that we're discussing here kind of falls under the trend of the circumstances.

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Are there things going on, these divine coincidences or Godwinks or glimpses of grace?

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There are things going on that are sort of pointing you in that direction.

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Our entire podcast is here because little things along the way encouraged me, and then you,

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when you came on board, to pursue this. It encouraged me to keep the thought in my mind.

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And then of course, when I discussed it with you and you're like, "Yeah, there wasn't a hesitation,"

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to me that was another little God wink that, "Yeah, this is the right path."

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And I think that we can sort of look back and see the hand of God in this.

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And more often than not, whenever we are trying to figure out what to talk about or who to interview

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or the topics that are coming up, even just this week we were talking about how our churches

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kind of focused for the next few weeks on what are those little ways.

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Let's share some stories, the little ways that God has shown up.

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And just the fact that we consistently see either in Sarah's life or my life or our church's life

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or just something that's going on that's relevant to what we have decided to talk about weeks in advance.

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And God just confirms, yes, this is the work I'm doing. This is the...

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- Yeah. That happens for me a lot when I write for our blog.

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I'll just choose a topic and then I'll be sitting in church on Sunday and the sermon will be about

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what's coming out in three days that I've already written. I'll be like, okay, that says thank you,

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Lord. But I think that sometimes we get like this really solemn approach or it almost feels like a

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burden or like, how do I know that God is talking to me or like, but I just don't hear an audible

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voice or there's no burning bushes or we've even had dear friends it's like I'm in a desert

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I don't feel God there and but God is there and Mary Beth he loves us so much not just

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to make the big things happen yes I'm going to prevent this catastrophe or you should

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go to study abroad or you should marry this person but he loves us so much that he cares

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about all the little details, like whether the appliances in my kitchen would be the same color.

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Yeah. Maybe whether there would be just the perfect sectional sofa sitting at the habitat

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restore when I first moved into this house and we had no way to furnish it and it was there for

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just a few hundred dollars and we used that for years and it was just such a blessing. I mean,

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You say, "Oh, well, yeah, you went shopping." But no. But God knew. I mean, I am telling you,

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the upholstery matched the stone that was in the fireplace. I mean, it literally was the most perfect

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sofa for the time for our home. I mean, I choose to see that as God's little way of loving me.

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I was just thinking about another one that I know I wrote about on our church's blog. I can't

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I was driving home. We had church on Sunday night as well.

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And so I was driving home from Sunday night church.

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Have I told this story before?

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And my parents were in a separate car because we had youth group stuff.

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Anyway, we drove home separately.

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And in my mind, I was like, you know what?

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I'm just going to swing through McDonald's, get an ice cream cone on the way home.

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Well, Sunday night treat.

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And our sermon that night had been about taking everything to the Lord in prayer.

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And I said, OK, all right, I'm just going to practice what I just heard.

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Just going to pray about it before I make this seemingly insignificant decision for myself.

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So I prayed and I said, OK, God, I want to get an ice cream cone.

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Let me know if I shouldn't do that.

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As soon as I finished praying, my mom calls my cell phone and she says,

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hey, your dad and I are stopping at this restaurant to get dessert on the way home.

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Do you want to come join us?

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And it was like fancy dessert.

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And I was like, yeah, I do.

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So it was like that little something like that, you know, that like is silly kind of,

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but it was, oh, because I stopped and put that into practice immediately.

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God was like, God has a sense of humor.

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He does have a sense of humor.

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He's like, go get a good dessert.

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Right. What happened?

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Exactly. And there are times where, like you mentioned,

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some of us will experience those dry seasons and we won't feel

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that closeness to God or we won't sense that he's working.

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And so I think he gives us those more lighthearted moments to remind us.

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I am in the details as well.

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Yeah.

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I'm always here.

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I'm always working.

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I'm always with you.

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And those are the things that can carry us through and not to make light of

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serious prayers or serious things that happen in our life.

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I'm not trying to frame it as in my life.

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I pray and all these wonderful things just happen and I eat dessert all the time.

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You know what I mean?

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Well, I just want to have the miracle

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that I eat dessert and don't gain any weight.

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I haven't experienced that miracle yet,

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so I'm waiting for that day.

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Well, this would be an interesting exercise.

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We are starting a time of great celebration.

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You will be listening to this

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as we are getting ready to celebrate

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the birth of our Lord, Jesus Christ.

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And we, maybe you'll be listening to this after that,

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I don't know, but as we go into the new year, as we turn the page on 2025 and look at 2026,

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wouldn't it be interesting to maybe start a little journal and just write down for a week,

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just little coincidences that seem like things just work out?

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I like that.

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Kind of see what would happen.

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I spent a lot of time worrying about things that never happen.

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That's one of my, I don't know what it is.

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It may, I guess maybe my human failings or just me being human.

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But I put a lot of energy sometimes into worrying and thinking about all the scenarios,

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which I mean, I'm great at planning.

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So that's, I guess, maybe the dark side of planning, but I find myself spending

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too much time doing that.

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I have an idea that if I were to write down all the little ways that God is caring

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for me and leading me and guiding me, that that might be really helpful to sort of counteract

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my tendency to over worry.

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And it, it switches our attitude.

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The circumstances might be the same, but how we view them changes.

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Yes.

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And how many things are we maybe missing out on seeing because we're not taking the time

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to stop and count.

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I'm recall.

22:41-22:42
- Yeah, I've often heard that prayer

22:42-22:44
may not change a situation, but it'll change you.

22:44-22:44
- Yeah.

22:46-22:50
And again, who knows what next year holds for any of us.

22:50-22:55
So, having a little book of many Ebeneezers.

22:57-22:58
- Did you say many or many?

22:59-23:02
- I said, am I and I with a Southern accent?

23:02-23:05
So it probably sounded like M-A-N-Y.

23:06-23:09
I meant many, many, many.

23:09-23:10
What's the difference in pronunciation there?

23:11-23:12
- Many or mini.

23:13-23:13
I don't know.

23:13-23:13
- Mini.

23:13-23:14
- But how about this?

23:14-23:15
How about mini, mini Ebeneezers?

23:16-23:16
(laughing)

23:17-23:19
Okay, how about Ebeneezers and Godwinks?

23:23-23:26
- How about, thank you for still listening,

23:26-23:27
even though we go on random rabbit trails.

23:28-23:28
- Yes.

23:30-23:31
Oh, here comes Mary Beth and Sarah

23:32-23:33
hopping down the bunny trail.

23:34-23:36
A side conversation is on its way.

23:38-23:42
Okay, we can say God loves us.

23:43-23:44
- Yes.

23:44-23:46
- He's told us in Matthew 7, Jesus says,

23:47-23:48
"Ask and it will be given to you.

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Seek and you will find.

23:50-23:51
Knock and the door will be opened to you.

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For everyone who asks receives, the one who seeks finds,

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and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."

23:58-23:59
It's Matthew 7, 7 and 8.

24:00-24:01
God loves us.

24:03-24:07
He sent his greatest gift in the form of his son, Jesus,

24:08-24:10
away for us to be saved on Christmas.

24:12-24:14
But he also continues to send us grace.

24:16-24:20
Yeah, so I think I'm gonna work on a little journal,

24:20-24:23
a little Ebenezer Godwink journal,

24:23-24:24
or maybe even a note card.

24:25-24:26
- Yeah. - To write them on.

24:27-24:28
- I was gonna say, you could start a,

24:29-24:31
all right, my default is to start a note on my phone,

24:32-24:34
but we need to get away from our phones more,

24:34-24:37
so let's do the actual physical thing.

24:37-24:39
- Yeah, let's get away from the phones

24:39-24:43
and let's keep our journal of Godwinks and Ebeneezers.

24:43-24:44
I like that, that's our challenge.

24:44-24:45
We'll challenge each other.

24:45-24:46
- All right.

24:46-24:51
- And in closing, John 14, 25 and 27.

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All this I have spoken while still with you,

24:54-24:56
but the advocate, the Holy Spirit,

24:56-24:58
whom the Father will send in my name,

24:58-25:00
will teach you all things

25:00-25:03
and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

25:03-25:06
Peace I leave with you, my peace I give you.

25:06-25:08
I do not give to you as a world gives.

25:09-25:11
Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

25:13-25:15
That's a good word as we start to look for these ways

25:15-25:16
that God loves us.

25:17-25:17
- Merry Christmas.

25:18-25:19
- And happy new year.

25:19-25:20
(upbeat music)

25:31-25:32
- Hey y'all, Mary Beth here.

25:33-25:35
Sarah and I are so glad that you chose

25:35-25:41
listen to our podcast. And while we think that we're awesome friends to have, we just

25:41-25:45
wanted to clarify that we are not mental health professionals and want you to know that this

25:45-25:49
podcast should not take the place of any paid professional advice.