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This is Trustworthy. Hi, I'm Sarah. And I'm Mary Beth. Join us for conversations

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in community established by a trustworthy God.

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Well hello there Mary Beth. Hello Sarah. Are we really here again? Yes we are in

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in the trustworthy podcast studio,

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recording our first episode of season three.

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- Hooray.

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- Wow, season three.

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- It's been a long time coming.

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- It has been a long time coming

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and I am just sort of amazed and humbled

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that we are sitting here to record the start of season three.

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- Yeah, it's gone quickly and slowly all at the same time.

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- Yeah.

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- If that makes sense.

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- It really does.

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- Yeah.

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- But I'm happy to be back.

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Oh, well, good. I'm happy to be here with you.

01:02-01:06
What should we talk about on this very first episode of season three?

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Oh, that's a great question.

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We're going to be focusing this season a little more on community and conversations.

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So the first thing we want to talk about is what culture breeds community?

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We did an episode almost a year ago back in November of 2024 that focused a lot on community

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and the nuts and bolts kind of of why it's important, how you build it, you know, what it

01:41-01:50
can look like in our lives. So building off of those ideas, Sarah and I have been talking about

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What does it take to actually build community and how does culture play into that?

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And what role do we have in influencing and shaping culture?

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And that's what we're aiming to discuss today.

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And a time where things are happening in our broader culture that we just can't ignore.

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I think I'll start by saying that there is more that unites us than divides us.

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But we forget that. And I spent a good amount of time this summer getting to know America.

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the places, the people, the history, the stories. Wow, it was amazing and changed me.

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We live in the United States. The United States was founded by people who believed that there was

03:03-03:04
is a better way to live.

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A way to live

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that could be filled with freedom of choice

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in religion and types of government,

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the way they built their communities,

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the way they took care of one another.

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That America still exists.

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It's hard to find.

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You actually have to look for it.

03:31-03:39
You can't stay in your house and have that information come in because we're getting

03:39-03:40
nothing for static.

03:42-03:45
Nothing but static on Channel Z, not biscotti.

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But sadly, and I believe that this breaks the heart of our dear heavenly father as well.

03:56-04:02
We spend more time thinking about how we're different

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and coming up with reasons to dislike

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and can I even use the word hate?

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The other human beings that God created in his image.

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And that culture is a darn hard place

04:22-04:23
to build community, Mary Beth.

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Yeah, it's never promised to believers in scripture that this would be easy.

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We've learned from Jesus himself that going against the religious rulers of the day can

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cost you your life, all in God's plan, of course.

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We also are taught that the wisdom of God is foolishness to the world.

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And particularly as followers of Christ, we are constantly swimming upstream.

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Does that mean that we cannot engage with the culture around us?

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Of course not.

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We are also called to engage with the culture around us because there is good in it and

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there's good in God's design.

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So that's what we're trying to wade into a little bit today.

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Looking back at our conversation on community, we can do things for our individual life that

05:28-05:33
build our own community and make our lives better and fruitful.

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But if we're operating just from that perspective of how do I make this work for me?

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How do I build community for me that helps me and how can I engage?

05:45-05:50
missing the broader picture of, but what is the culture around me and how are we helping

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the culture around us value community value people of different points of view coming together,

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valuing human life, valuing those who are different from us, but live in the same place

06:05-06:13
that we do. There are all these things that we can have good influences on in the culture around

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And so those are the kind of big ideas we've been tossing around

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and that we want to get into a little bit.

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-One of our favorite places to start is with the definitions.

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We love the words.

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In my high school graduation gift, Random House Dictionary.

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Oh, I better not say what year.

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The definition of culture that we're going to use

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for our discussion today is the sum total of ways of living,

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built up by a group of human beings

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and transmitted from one generation to another.

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The behaviors and beliefs characteristic

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of a particular social, ethnic, or age group.

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So as I said earlier,

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there's more that unites us than divides us.

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We all are created in the image of God.

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We are built to be in relationship with one another.

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So what things do you have in common with any single person that you come across?

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Well, we all need to eat.

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We all need to breathe.

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Typically you're in the same geographical area.

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If you are a sports fan, you can discuss with someone whether they like or dislike

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sports team, keep it light.

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You raise this point that.

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There can be a variety of cultures existing at one time in your life.

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The town and the area where we live might be one culture.

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You mentioned sports.

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There are sports teams and cultures and customs and practices that go on with those things.

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And there,

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There is a little push and pull, right?

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As believers within culture, how is our view different from other people that share the culture

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with us or that we share the culture with whatever the right grammar should be there?

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We want to be positively shaping culture around us without robbing it of its good and good identity.

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But if we want to build culture that values community,

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what does that look like?

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I like to think of this idea of coat tails.

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You've heard the phrase,

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you grabbed onto the coat tails of so and so and took the ride to the top.

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Well, if we think of these little coat tails in our culture around us,

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these would be things that are in alignment with what God's word has said,

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what our role is as believers.

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But we can look for these coattails

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and we can jump on those and help those efforts.

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These could be charitable organizations in our community.

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These could be maybe a local project

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to build a trail at the park.

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That would be building community.

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It would bring folks closer to nature,

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which is of course what God has created for us to enjoy

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and have dominion over.

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Let's think for a minute about those examples.

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You're kind of getting into what do we think are the characteristics

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of types of cultures, existing cultures, subcultures, whatever you want to call them

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that do create strong community?

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And what is it about those cultures that creates community?

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That's a great question.

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I think of college football because it's the fall and I'm a big University of Georgia fan and alum.

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So immediately what comes to mind is there's a visible common identity. You're wearing the

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jerseys, the shirts, the colors, whatever of the teams and you can immediately recognize

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there's a hilarious commercial on TV right now for I think it's some kind of insurance

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where the guy's boss puts down a University of Georgia mug in a big conference room meeting

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and he's like, oh, go dogs. And he starts barking doing the Georgia bark and it's really awkward

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and hilarious. The commercial is really funny, but it's a great example of she puts down that mug

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that has the University of Georgia logo on it and it's immediate recognition. There is a whole realm

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of understanding that comes down when she puts down that mug. So it could be things like that,

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that there's recognition, there's some physical attribute to college football teams. There's

11:03-11:07
the activity of going to games. There's what you're wearing, what you're doing,

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the chants you're saying, the songs you know. What's another example, Sarah, of a culture like that?

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Well, we live in the greater Philadelphia area. I have a question for you, Mary Beth.

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Jeet yet?

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We can go grab a hoagie.

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Yeah.

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So I think slang terms also too.

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I'm a mountain biker.

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So I can say things like, "Whew, there was no good line.

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It was totally gnarly, but boy, I just decided to send it."

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And people that maybe know what I'm talking about would be like, "Oh yeah."

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And then somebody else will look at me like, "What are you talking about?"

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When I got into mountain biking, I started realizing that there were certain clothing

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that people were wearing and I'm like, "Oh, look at them.

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They're all flaunting their special clothing."

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And then suddenly I realized, "Oh, right.

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Yeah, those shorts are really important.

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They're extra long."

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Very functional.

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Very functional.

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They won't get caught in the brambles.

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They're comfortable.

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I'm like, "Yeah, I need those too."

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So there's definitely physical attributes.

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I also think about mindset as well.

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And this can sort of come out when you are in a culture with someone.

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Let's say that you are a horseback rider, okay?

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And you're in the horse community, which is another big community we have in our area here.

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And let's say you are getting set up for an event, maybe a steeple chase event or something.

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And you've forgotten.

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And again, this is going to show my complete ignorance when it comes to the horse world.

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But let's say you've forgotten a very specific type of bridal and you could just look at your

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friend and hold up the wrong thing and with the shocked look on your face and they'd be like,

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"Oh no, I got you. I have an extra one." I think there's also like this shared mindset when it

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comes to that. Going back to the trail building idea, when everyone's there, whether they're

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going to be riding a bike on the trail or hiking on the trail, everyone understands,

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Yeah, there's going to be some branches or trees or things that are going to have to

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come out of this trail so that we can make it passable.

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It's going to have a great cascading effect in our community.

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So everybody's there and they're getting out the loppers and they're chopping the

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vines and they're raking the path.

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And you don't need to say to someone, Oh, go clear that branch because they already

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know.

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So it's a shared mindset.

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Yeah.

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And a sense of purpose, a common goal.

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As we talk about these sort of hallmarks of different culture that builds community,

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you know, when you got it, when the community that's built transcends time and space.

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I spent some time, as I mentioned, getting to know our country this summer.

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And we part of it was driving the old route 66 from Chicago to LA.

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After we were done and in the ensuing time that we've been home, if I happen to mention

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that trip or something related to that trip, I have run into a couple people that have done that

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trip and there's this instant connection and they can say, "Oh, did you see the corner in

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Winslow, Arizona?" That was one conversation I had recently. Or did you stop at that restored

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gas station that's a museum now. And there's this whole understanding between us. Wow,

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we've had this experience where we saw a small town America. We saw the ways that people

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used to spend their time taking days and days to travel across the country. Just that feeling

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that you get and that depth of knowledge that is gained rather than just flying over an

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airplane, there will be listeners for this particular episode of this podcast.

15:12-15:16
When I mentioned those things, they will say yes, and we will have a connection

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that transcends time and space.

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The other common thread I'm hearing too is

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that culture involves the whole person.

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You are physically engaged.

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You're, you're driving in a car down Route 66.

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You're attending a football game.

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You're pedalling on your bike.

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This is where real culture and community happen is when you are engaging

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your physical body in all of these ways and forming these connections

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mentally, emotionally, to whatever is happening.

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You're creating memories.

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You're repeating patterns.

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It's a whole person experience.

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And as a quick aside, that's why the internet is not real life.

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That is why internet communities can never substitute for real in-person culture and

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community.

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Culture in the physical world cannot happen if everyone is isolated and behind a screen.

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As the kids would say, touch grass, touch grass.

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I hadn't heard that before, but it's becoming more common.

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I was thinking the same thing.

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And as we were doing research with this podcast, we ran across an interesting concept from anthropologist

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Robin Dunbar.

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He discusses something called the Dunbar's number.

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And his idea is that you cannot know more than 150 people.

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Getting additional friends on Facebook or follows on your Instagram or whatever

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it may be, does not constitute actual community because of cognitive limits.

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And also the amount of time that is required to invest in meaningful relationships.

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150 give or take is about the upper limit.

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And apparently there is some difference between male and female

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genders in terms of capacity.

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And he did not dane to mention in his video which one was which. So therefore neither will I.

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Anyway, the point of all of this is that we are limited in how many relationships that we can

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sustain. And we've mentioned this several times, you're the sum total of the five people you spend

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the most time with, those five important relationships, of course, would receive your most time investment.

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And but then as you go further out in your community, you would have more acquaintances

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and more friends that you would also invest time. Which brings up the point, how do we

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structure our lives for that cultural influence to happen.

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We're coming from the hypothesis that community is good.

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Everybody needs and wants it.

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And so how do we then help build that culture?

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How do we leave room in our lives for our culture to flourish that will

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create that community that everyone's looking for?

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Hmm.

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That's an excellent question.

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And we did to spend some time thinking about this.

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I think the first answer is actually in the question.

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How do we leave room?

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Well, we leave room.

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We leave margin.

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We leave margin in our schedule, our physical calendar schedule.

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We also leave margin in our intellectual space.

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What does that mean, Sarah?

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It is important, and I'm going to use a buzzword here.

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It's important to have an open mindset versus a closed mindset.

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We hear that a lot, especially in educational circles.

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But it is true.

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If we are open to new possibilities and new connections, then we will have new possibilities

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and new connections.

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If we approach the world with our mind already closed, thinking, "Oh, I don't have time in

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my life.

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I don't have room in my life," then that's exactly the result that we're going to get.

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I don't want to put in the effort to get to know somebody who is different from me or

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because that is the flip side I think of culture is we can latch on so tightly to something that

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is exactly what we want it to be that we don't allow space for something that might be a little

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bit different. And I think that this sort of ties back to the conversation we had at the beginning

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our culture and authorizing people.

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And the internet is famous for being an echo chamber.

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If you want more of what you are interested in, just hop on your smartphone

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or your computer and do a little scrolling.

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And soon you will be getting exactly what you're looking for and nothing else.

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It's just like good old Daniel Tiger taught me on PBS with my young boys.

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You got to try a new food because it might taste good.

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That's right.

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Yeah, your taste buds do change as you age.

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It's true though.

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Recognizing those coattails that I mentioned earlier in the culture around us is another

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way that we can help build community.

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For example, there is a movement called Wait Until Eighth and I'm not sure who started it,

20:58-21:01
where it started, if it was faith-based, if it's not.

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But it came to me as a petition that I signed for our school and that I would wait

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until the end of eighth grade to give my child a smartphone.

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And I signed it and we did.

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And the whole premise of this is that parents cave

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to their kids because they think they're the only ones

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but they're not the only ones.

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That was an interesting coattail

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that I felt very compelled to grab onto.

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- Yeah, and I'll just add that particular example.

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It is by design meant to encourage a public facing community that says,

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Hey, we're doing this.

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Join us.

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You're not alone.

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This is what we want for our kids.

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It's what we want for their friends as well.

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I too have signed the pledge for my boys.

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And if you look up articles on this particular topic about smartphones and

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social media for kids, it is one of the few topics in our country right now

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that is bridging political divides

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and all these other things.

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And so I think that's a great example of people

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you might not, other parents in your community

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that you might not have a lot of values in common with.

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Start with this issue, build community there,

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find common ground.

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Who knows what other conversations that can lead to.

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- It is robbing our children of their childhood.

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Nobody wants that.

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- Right.

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So Mary Beth, what are some other things

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that we can do to leave room in our lives

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or allow this culture to flourish.

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I was thinking when you mentioned

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recognizing how God is at work in culture,

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it's this mentality of not going out there as a crusader

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and saying, I'm gonna change everything around me.

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It's seeing where God is already working

22:54-22:55
and getting involved there.

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We had a guest on last season, Jessica Zubrod,

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whose family is super involved with our local community.

23:04-23:07
I think they're a great example of her husband helps run

23:07-23:11
a company that invests in the community

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and buying buildings and land and supporting businesses

23:16-23:19
and nonprofits that are turning back

23:19-23:20
into the community for good.

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So I think of things like that.

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How are we supporting those businesses?

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How are we getting engaged?

23:27-23:28
How are we volunteering?

23:28-23:29
How are we contributing to things

23:29-23:31
that are already happening, that are already at work

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to bring light and goodness into our culture

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and to help us get to know our neighbors better.

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I think that's a great example.

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Another way to think about it is identity.

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A lot of times people are searching for identity

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and we need to remember that identity

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is not lost in community, but it is forged there.

23:58-24:02
We are bringing everything from our past into our present.

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And so what can we choose to let go of?

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What can we choose to maybe leave behind

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that isn't good for our current community and culture?

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And how are we, I mean, it's all kind of ties together.

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How are we open to being changed by this community?

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How are we 10 years from now different

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from who we are today in ways that matter.

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And how are we taking those things with us

24:30-24:33
that are the core of who we are that are good

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and that don't need a change?

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- Yeah, and I just wanna just encourage or remind here,

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it's about discernment and being sure

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that we are looking for God's work,

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looking for the ways that God is showing up in the culture,

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that if we are going to surround ourselves

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with a community that's gonna change us,

24:54-24:57
that it would be one that forms us more fully

24:57-24:59
into a disciple of Jesus Christ.

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And again, we did a great episode last season

25:04-25:05
about the community of believers

25:06-25:08
and there's a lot of good information there.

25:09-25:11
I also had another thought about this, Marybeth.

25:12-25:18
When we are looking to encourage a culture

25:19-25:21
that will allow community to thrive,

25:22-25:30
You have to remember specifically for followers of Christ, we are kingdom builders, not crusaders.

25:32-25:35
So often we set out on a crusade.

25:37-25:43
And when I say the word crusade, I'm thinking specifically of The Crusades and capital letters

25:44-25:49
where Christians thought it would be a great idea to go out and bring the word by killing

25:50-25:50
lots of people.

25:50-25:56
I'm not going to dive into all the historical ramifications of that, but I just want us

25:56-26:01
to have a kingdom building approach as opposed to a slash and burn.

26:02-26:03
It's more about stewardship, I think.

26:04-26:04
That's right.

26:04-26:09
We were given a command in the Garden of Eden to be fruitful, to multiply.

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We see in Jesus's prayers that he values the city, that he values people, he values culture,

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And these are all good things.

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And we were here to steward those like you're saying.

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I think it's also important to keep in mind,

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this is playing the long game.

26:31-26:32
Culture is not built overnight.

26:34-26:35
It's a slow and steady process.

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You know, when I moved here to Pennsylvania,

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I brought a lot of my expectations of culture

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from places where I used to live.

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And I've had to learn how things are different here.

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And I've been here years and I'm still learning.

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And that's a probably going to be a process as long as I live here.

26:56-26:57
And so that's not a bad thing.

26:57-27:02
It's being willing to commit to something for a long, a long haul.

27:02-27:08
And also recognizing that this is the process of living your day to day life.

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Being faithful in the small things, pushing yourself outside your comfort zone.

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And all these other things we've been talking about.

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And it does take work.

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as Mary Beth said earlier, Jesus never said we were going to have an easy life.

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I think he said some things along the lines of,

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"In this world, you will have trouble, but take heart,

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for I have overcome the world."

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But then when you have those moments of connection,

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like you talked about your trip this summer,

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when I encounter people who are believers,

27:48-27:54
that I might not have a whole adult in common with other than we both live in this general geographic area.

27:55-28:00
But once we figure out we have that connection, it changes the whole dynamic.

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This happened with one of the bus drivers of my boy's school bus.

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She was very friendly. We'd always chat for a few seconds when she was picking them up in the mornings.

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I saw her out in town one time on a Sunday.

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We were out to eat after church.

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She said, oh, what are you all up to?

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I said, we just came from church.

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She said, I just came from church!

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And it broke down this whole,

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I mean, not that we intentionally had a barrier,

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but it opened up this whole other level of our relationship

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and helped me as a mom to know that somebody who knows the Lord

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is driving my kids on the bus.

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It's just a small example of that connection,

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especially among believers, there's nothing else like it in the world.

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And that's the culture that we want to be fostering.

28:48-28:48
Yeah.

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I had the similar thing happen to me

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with mountain biking.

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Just one of my families was always sweet.

28:55-28:57
And then I ran into the mom

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at Bible study, we're like, oh, hey.

29:01-29:02
And the whole thing changed.

29:03-29:05
And now I know that they're praying for our team.

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How sweet it is.

29:07-29:08
Oh, yeah.

29:09-29:10
It will be hard.

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But there are moments where God helps us enjoy it and gives us moments of blessing and grace as we fight the good fight to build this culture.

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And I would encourage you, dear listeners, to keep your heart and your eyes open for those moments of community.

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I tend sometimes to get so caught up in the doing that I forget to just be back to the

29:42-29:48
Mary and Martha as I'm working with a group of people and I'm so focused on the program

29:50-29:53
that I am forgetting to just enjoy the connection.

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You make a difference when you're in the room.

29:59-30:03
It can be a difference for good or not.

30:06-30:13
So Sarah, looking ahead, we're looking to continue this idea of

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what has it looked like in our lives maybe to experience this with other people.

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Do you want to tease the people about what might be coming ahead in some future episodes?

30:27-30:36
Oh, yes. We intend to have some conversations with folks that we have created community with,

30:37-30:44
that we met within a culture that allowed those relationships to flourish.

30:46-30:47
So stay tuned for that.

30:49-30:50
Any closing thoughts, Sarah?

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They want to keep an open mindset and we also want to follow the example that Jesus gave us

30:59-31:06
in enjoying and connecting with the people that he was with. And it didn't always look like maybe

31:06-31:14
other people thought it should, but it was good. And trust that God is at work. He is right now

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at work, building and refining people, cultures and communities.

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So if you are doing those things that we mentioned, leaving space in your schedule,

31:26-31:31
having that open mind, seeking him with your heart's all in mind,

31:33-31:36
then you'll be able to see where he is working and be able to jump in

31:37-31:44
and get engaged in building culture that way. On that note, listeners, until next time,

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time. Let's be Kingdom Builders in this culture marathon.

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And remember the words of Hebrews 10, 24 and 25. Let us consider how to stir up one another

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to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together as is the habit of some, but encouraging

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one another, and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

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Amen.

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[Music]

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Hey y'all, Mary Beth here.

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Sarah and I are so glad that you chose to listen to our podcast.

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And while we think that we're awesome friends to have,

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we just wanted to clarify that we are not mental health professionals

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and want you to know that this podcast should not take the place of any paid professional advice.