0.000000 5.280000 The enemy would love nothing more than for us to jump on over back into condemnation.
5.280000 10.560000 To fight against that is to follow what Scripture teaches about what true conviction really is.
10.560000 17.440000 Is God trustworthy? Hi, I'm Sarah. And I'm Mary Beth.
17.440000 22.720000 Join us as we seek to answer this question through whole-hearted conversation.
22.720000 28.800000 Discover the wit and wisdom that comes from being anchored in Christ and connected to one
28.800000 38.800000 another. This is Trustworthy.
38.800000 49.360000 Well, hello there, Mary Beth.
49.360000 57.440000 Hi, Sarah. It's us again. It is. And it's us, distantly. We're still
58.240000 65.440000 meeting over Zoom again because of the flu. These germs will not leave
65.440000 76.000000 much like nagging sin. I like your segue there. That was a pretty good segue for someone who
76.000000 81.520000 is still recovering from the flu. I didn't even plan that. That just came to me in the moment.
81.520000 86.400000 So there's your mom. Maybe that's a mom joke or maybe it's a good segue. We'll leave it up to you
86.400000 93.600000 to decide. Yeah. So I was talking to a friend last week and we had a very good conversation about
93.600000 99.840000 conviction versus condemnation, which is the episode that you heard two weeks ago.
99.840000 111.520000 And she said condemnation to her is this feeling of, oh, I've broken God's law
113.120000 123.840000 and that conviction is more of the posture. Oh, I understand that God made that law for my good
123.840000 134.320000 out of his love for me. And I was pretty much convinced that that should have been a part of the
134.320000 141.680000 episode that we heard two weeks ago. But then it occurred to me that perhaps we needed to spend
141.680000 150.080000 more time talking about the happy side of conviction, which sounds like an anomaly.
150.080000 155.600000 I like where you're going with that though. I do think our conversation last time was good.
155.600000 162.800000 It kind of clarifying when we have these feelings of shame or negative response to something
162.800000 168.240000 that's going on in our life, we need to decipher and determine, is that coming from the Lord,
168.240000 172.480000 is it coming from somewhere else? What is condemnation versus conviction?
172.480000 179.920000 But then we didn't really get into a lot of what do we do? What do we do with the conviction?
179.920000 185.360000 And how is that good for us? And yeah, like you're saying, what's the maybe the happy side of that?
185.360000 197.280000 I think breaking through conviction, I think of this concept of breaking through to the other side.
197.280000 206.320000 Maybe I'm just thinking of the doors. I don't know. But it is painful. It is difficult. It is not a process
206.320000 216.080000 that we enjoy. However, there's joy that can be had when we've come through a difficult time.
216.080000 222.720000 And God has been faithful to us. In fact, there is a song that I love that reminds me of this.
222.720000 228.400000 And I'm just going to share a few of the lyrics. A song called "Look What You've Done" by Tasha Layton.
228.400000 238.400000 And this really speaks to me because of some of the shame and condemnation that I've felt in my life
238.400000 244.960000 around certain sins. And I have to say that listening to this song over and over again as I have done
244.960000 251.680000 has really helped me. So I'll just share this. Look what you've done by Tasha Layton. Look what you've done.
252.560000 258.160000 How could you fall so far? You should be ashamed of yourself.
258.160000 267.040000 So I was ashamed of myself. The lies I believed that they got some roots that run deep.
267.040000 273.760000 I let them take a hold of my life. I let them take control of my life.
275.120000 283.680000 Standing in your presence, Lord, I can feel you digging all the roots up. I feel you healing all my
283.680000 293.200000 wounds up. All I can say is Hallelujah. Look what you've done. Look what you've done in me. You spoke
293.200000 300.800000 your truth into the lies. I let my heart believe. Look at me now. Look how you made me new.
301.520000 312.320000 The enemy did everything that he could do. Oh, but look what you've done. Suddenly all the shame is gone.
312.320000 320.000000 I thought I was broken. Now I see you were breaking new ground inside of me.
320.000000 327.200000 There's a lot there, but I love that promise and that last stanza.
329.120000 335.760000 Everything that we go through, God can use for our good and He does.
335.760000 346.400000 It brings to mind for me that image in the chronicles of Narnia of Eustis when he's a dragon
346.400000 354.800000 and Aslan has to peel the scales back so that he can be a boy again and it's painful and it's hard.
356.800000 361.120000 And it makes me think of the times when I've experienced conviction
361.120000 369.520000 that it's often not an isolated sin of which I am being convicted.
369.520000 378.240000 So let me explain what I mean. Let's say I'm being convicted of some, I don't know, bitterness
378.240000 386.400000 against another person. When I'm confronted with that, I often find that right alongside it is pride
386.400000 393.600000 and right alongside that is self-righteousness. And so there are these layers to the conviction that
393.600000 400.080000 we don't have the luxury of it being one simple little thing that we just need to fix,
400.080000 408.000000 but that we are really entangled in what's going on and that it takes someone outside of ourselves
408.000000 413.440000 to fix that. Only God can do, like what this song is saying. Look what you've done. You know,
413.440000 416.640000 you're the one that the enemy who did everything that he could, but look what you've done.
416.640000 422.720000 You're breaking new ground. You know, you're the one that's going to take hold of our lives.
422.720000 429.600000 We can't do that on our own. And the good news is he's big enough to do it.
429.600000 442.640000 He certainly is. So this conversation sort of leads us into the question of how do we experience
442.640000 449.840000 conviction literally. So one of the ways for me is through music. I think that's a pretty common
449.840000 457.040000 experience. And we do have some more songs that we will reference in our show notes that also
457.680000 464.960000 can help to listen to. But my time in the scriptures, we've talked in our small group already
464.960000 472.320000 about how certain scriptures, especially I think as we're reading through the book of James,
472.320000 478.720000 the certain scriptures can be very convicting. And one of the ones that we have been talking about
478.720000 483.920000 is let us then be slow to speak as slow to get angry. Quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to
483.920000 493.760000 become angry. This is one that I am constantly convicted of in my life. As previously admitted,
493.760000 502.960000 I do love to talk. And one of my favorite proverbs I'm thinking about a lot lately, especially after all the
504.560000 513.680000 election season and everything is in the tongue there is both death and life and those who love it
513.680000 521.920000 will eat its fruit. Yeah. So I have to be careful. We both have to be careful, Marybeth. And I'm
521.920000 531.680000 constantly convicted. What I'm saying on this podcast is going out into the the ether, the the inner
531.680000 539.280000 webs. And it is permanent, it is permanent. Am I saying something that is going to bear fruit
539.280000 548.480000 for life for myself and others? Or well, the fruit of my tongue be deaf for myself and others.
548.480000 557.040000 Very convicting. It is very convicting. And your right scripture, you know, is it's living
557.040000 564.400000 and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, right? And I think that is a primary way that we can't
564.400000 572.160000 experience conviction. The more we are spending time meditating on scripture, letting it kind of
572.160000 580.320000 impact us. That's a big way that God will use it for for conviction and for our good. In addition to
580.320000 585.040000 things like the sermons we hear at church on Sunday morning, other teachings, other Bible
585.040000 590.960000 studies we might be involved in. But I think back to what you were saying about music and our small
590.960000 599.040000 group, it also is a good reminder that conviction can come in unexpected places because the Holy Spirit
599.040000 605.040000 is at work everywhere. So it might come through a conversation with a friend. It might come through
605.040000 610.720000 a conversation with a coworker who is not even intending to bring about conviction. I mean,
610.720000 615.600000 I've had conversations with people who are not believers and the Holy Spirit has revealed something in
615.600000 623.360000 that interaction that makes me kind of go, whoa, like stops me my tracks, say, hang on. What they just
623.360000 629.440000 said, because we've said this many times on this podcast, all truth is God's truth, what they just
629.440000 635.520000 said is convicted me of something in my own heart. It's holding up a mirror and they may not even be
635.520000 642.400000 aware that they're doing it. But the Holy Spirit can work through that as well. You're absolutely right.
642.400000 653.600000 The circumstances around us also can cause conviction. What's going on in the world? My heart breaks
654.320000 665.040000 for children that are mistreated, especially enslaved. And that is something that can fix me.
665.040000 674.080000 I often will mention modern day slavery and conversation just as a way to bring awareness
674.080000 681.200000 because I think it's something that is not, it's just not widely talked about. And it's an uncomfortable
681.200000 690.560000 topic for many reasons, but it's happening. So I feel convicted by that situation
690.560000 702.720000 to raise awareness. That is a highly charged example of circumstantial conviction. Let's also
702.720000 708.480000 cover a lighthearted example. Are you looking to me for the light? I'm looking to you. I'm trying to
708.480000 714.240000 try to make eyes at you from behind my microphone. That's your girlfriend.
714.240000 726.080000 The joys of communicating over Zoom when you... Yeah. Well, we're not 100%. Yeah, exactly.
726.080000 732.400000 Mentally all here. Yeah. And I can't even use my normal recording setup because of the fact
732.400000 737.840000 in Zoom. So it's really going to sound different. Please bear with us, dear listeners. We're doing what we
737.840000 748.480000 can. What you're saying about circumstantial conviction makes a lot of sense. If I look at what
748.480000 754.320000 my input is, we've talked about this before on different episodes. Yeah. What is feeding in
754.320000 763.520000 is going to impact my heart, my mind, how I live my life. Where am I placing myself? Am I in a place
763.520000 772.640000 of serving others, of educating myself on what's going on in the world? Am I involved in my children's
772.640000 779.520000 school? Are there things that come up in situations there that highlight something in my own heart
779.520000 787.360000 that might be an idol for me? Is it academic performance? Are we being salt and light enough
787.360000 791.440000 in our school district? All of these things can be kind of like your saying. Circumstantial
792.000000 797.520000 conviction. And so it's, we kind of talked about where it can come from a lot of different places.
797.520000 802.480000 But after we are convicted, what's the next step?
802.480000 812.880000 Well, I want to add one more point to this. Yeah. Circumstantial conviction, tell a story.
814.640000 822.800000 As I mentioned last week on our episode, one of my personal pain points of condemnation was
822.800000 836.240000 some of my behavior as a young woman. And there was a time in my life where I was running from myself,
838.160000 845.680000 filling my life with activity and noise so that I didn't have to be alone with my own thoughts.
845.680000 857.360000 Because they inevitably turned to disdain. The lies that I was believing about myself were very
857.360000 867.840000 loud. And my behavior was not supporting me feeling good about myself. I had moved into a new
867.840000 875.440000 little apartment and had bought some furniture. And one of the purchases was a cozy leather club chair
875.440000 884.400000 and an ottoman. And my desire at that point in my life was to be able to sit in that chair
884.400000 895.120000 quietly with no noise, no television, no phone conversation, no music. But to sit in that chair quietly
897.280000 905.760000 and to be able to stand my own company. It took some time to be able to get to that point.
905.760000 915.440000 I still have the chair. And over the years, it has become a place of
917.440000 930.560000 solace, a place of safety for me, and a place that I've been able to sit in through some deep sorrow.
930.560000 937.040000 I think I mentioned that there was a period of my life where I had given up Facebook because I'd
937.040000 946.720000 lost a loved one. Well, what I didn't mention is that I lost six in six months. So
946.720000 958.160000 circumstantial conviction can just be can you stand your own company? Can you sit quietly?
960.160000 969.040000 Can you stand to be with yourself? If you can't sister, brother, fall on your knees,
969.040000 974.960000 go to your savior. He'll receive you with open arms.
974.960000 987.600000 Thank you for sharing that, Sarah. I always appreciate your vulnerability, even on a podcast.
988.160000 997.280000 And it speaks to the work that the Holy Spirit is doing and has done in your life.
997.280000 1006.160000 And we need to share those with other people. We need those reminders, those ebonyzers.
1006.160000 1014.400000 We need people who have walked the road ahead of us or differently from us to point to the
1014.400000 1020.000000 works that the Lord has done so that as we've been discussing, there isn't shame attached to it.
1020.000000 1031.600000 There is healing and there is glorification of the work that God is doing that only he can do.
1031.600000 1043.200000 And I am a podcaster. I am talking about these things on a podcast which gets recorded and goes
1043.200000 1048.720000 into the inner webs for all time. That's right. The internet is forever.
1048.720000 1055.840000 Cares me more than I don't even know the words to describe how nerve-wracking that is.
1055.840000 1064.160000 But I'm trusting. I'm trusting that the God who's seen me through so much is not going to leave me now.
1064.160000 1072.720000 And I think that kind of leads into where do we go from here. There is, as you just mentioned,
1073.120000 1081.360000 that one-on-one kind of you and God time and evaluation and examination of your heart and your life
1081.360000 1086.400000 that needs to happen with this concept of repentance.
1086.400000 1092.000000 Correct. If we've been convicted of a sin, we need to repent of it.
1092.000000 1096.160000 Scripture says, you know, against you and you only have I sinned.
1098.160000 1103.520000 But then there are times that we need to make it right with other people.
1103.520000 1112.480000 That's correct. And I always think of steps 8 and 9 of the 12-step program.
1112.480000 1119.200000 Step 8 is you made a list of all persons that we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.
1119.200000 1126.160000 And then step 9 is made direct amends to such people wherever possible except when to do so
1126.160000 1136.560000 would injure them or others. I like these because it also reminds me of Romans 12-18.
1136.560000 1144.480000 If it is possible as far as it depends on you, live it peace with everyone. And perhaps that was
1144.480000 1154.800000 the scripture that informed those steps. But sometimes we can't directly speak with someone to
1154.800000 1163.840000 make amends. Maybe they have passed away. Maybe to do so would cause them greater pain.
1163.840000 1175.680000 But being willing and admitting what we need to do, who we need to make amends to,
1175.680000 1184.640000 really puts us in that position of understanding how our thoughts, words and actions can truly hurt
1184.640000 1191.520000 other people. Again, as we said, in the tongue is the power of life and death and those who love it will
1191.520000 1202.640000 eat its fruit. I also think of how scripture teaches us to bring light to darkness. And when we are
1202.640000 1212.400000 able to confess our sins to one another, when we're able to name that elephant in the room,
1213.280000 1218.480000 there is freedom and there's light that can come there. It's not always going to be clean and easy.
1218.480000 1227.120000 Might be painful. Might be messy. But I have yet to see anything other than scripture calling us to
1227.120000 1234.960000 live that way. And that there is always more shame and heaviness and condemnation when we
1235.760000 1243.920000 are not willing to move forward into that restoration and that repentance. And that goes back to our
1243.920000 1253.920000 previous episode. We drew these distinctions between conviction and condemnation. But I don't
1253.920000 1261.920000 think it's a one stop shop. The enemy would love nothing more than for us to in the midst of true
1261.920000 1270.560000 conviction, jump on over back into condemnation. And a way to fight against that is to follow what
1270.560000 1274.880000 scripture teaches about what true conviction really is. And that's what we're getting at here with
1274.880000 1282.960000 repentance and restoration, which leads to kind of this last point, Sarah, that we'd put down here
1282.960000 1290.800000 a hope and a future. Do you want to touch on that? Yeah, I do. It is very helpful to memorize some
1290.800000 1298.800000 scriptures about how far God puts our sins away from us, as far as from the east as to the west,
1298.800000 1304.560000 so that when that condemnation starts sneaking in, we can just nib it in the bud. And we can say,
1304.560000 1311.200000 Satan, get the hence, there's no room for you here anymore. And when we do that, we start to
1311.200000 1319.760000 understand that to live into that hope and that future, we need to leave condemnation behind.
1319.760000 1325.920000 It is very difficult to meet our potential. It's very difficult to do the work that God has for us
1325.920000 1331.600000 if we are feeling condemnation. I would not be able to be on this podcast a day if I felt the
1331.600000 1340.560000 condemnation that I used to. And that is truly a testament to the amazing saving grace of Jesus Christ.
1340.560000 1344.160000 That is it. There's nothing that I've done. Certainly not.
1346.080000 1351.600000 So what is that future? Well, that's for you to dream about and for God to reveal.
1351.600000 1363.200000 The hope is that you have work, good work that God has prepared in advance for you to do.
1363.200000 1373.920000 And dealing with sin in your life and working through that will enable you
1375.280000 1384.160000 to move into that future. We'll also give you the ability to more clearly discern God's voice.
1384.160000 1393.520000 We've talked about this a lot. How do you know that it's God speaking? Well, our conscience is a tool.
1393.520000 1400.560000 Our conscience is not the Holy Spirit, but the conscience can be shaped by what we put in
1400.560000 1406.400000 to our mind, scripture, the advice of trust or Christian friends who were spirit-filled,
1406.400000 1411.120000 and the trend of the circumstances are the three things that I always like to look at.
1411.120000 1421.520000 And again, wisdom from above. It's first of all pure. He's loving. I can't remember that right now.
1421.520000 1425.760000 That is a scripture I should memorize very well. I know it's when you're referencing. Yeah, we talked
1425.760000 1434.400000 about it last time. Yeah, full of good fruit. So in conclusion, I have a couple of questions for you,
1434.400000 1442.480000 Mary Beth. What is one area where you have been blessed to be convicted in your life?
1442.480000 1451.040000 For people who have been listening to a lot of episodes of our podcast, this will not come as a
1451.040000 1461.040000 surprise, but it is most often in my life been how my words are impacting other people.
1461.040000 1469.200000 I tend to be blunt and direct and not always consider how my words might land.
1469.200000 1475.920000 And that has come up again recently in my life that my words have been hurting
1476.800000 1482.000000 someone. I was unaware it was happening. I didn't realize that they were hurting someone until they
1482.000000 1489.760000 brought it to my attention. And that's where, as I mentioned earlier in this episode, it's not just a
1489.760000 1496.800000 singular sin. I often find that it's mixed with other things. So when someone brings something like
1496.800000 1503.200000 that to my attention, there's some pride issues going on there too, because I know that this is
1503.200000 1510.400000 something that I have struggled with my whole life, how I speak, how my words land, my bluntness,
1510.400000 1519.280000 and how that has hurt people and hurt relationships. And so part of it for me is
1519.280000 1525.840000 stopping, kind of what you talked about earlier, stopping and being willing to
1525.840000 1532.480000 really sift through. What is being said to me? What is the sin? What is really going on? Because
1532.480000 1541.200000 my defenses are up immediately. I want to justify my sin. I want to deny it. I want to say, but
1541.200000 1547.680000 look at all this progress I've made in the past on it. Surely that's not still a problem for me.
1547.680000 1552.240000 But it keeps coming back. That'll be a recent example.
1554.880000 1565.120000 Do you think that in this most recent iteration of this particular area of conviction?
1565.120000 1574.480000 Do you think you have learned anything new or seen the issue in a different light?
1577.360000 1584.960000 Yeah. I will say I don't think, well, I was going to say I don't think God's finished working on it.
1584.960000 1589.680000 I don't think he's going to be finished until the end of my days here on earth. Correct.
1589.680000 1595.440000 In this specific situation, I don't think I've sorted it all through, but I will say,
1595.440000 1602.960000 I've noticed a little bit of self-righteousness being mixed in in a way that I would not have thought was
1602.960000 1610.880000 there until I stopped to examine it. Because in my mind, I'm thinking, "Oh, I've been working
1610.880000 1615.280000 on this for so long. I'm aware of it. I'm much more aware of it than I was earlier in my life."
1615.280000 1622.400000 So, you know, like, I've got a handle on it. I can control it. I can manage it.
1622.400000 1628.240000 And it's when those thoughts start creeping in that I realize there's actually a lot of self-righteousness
1628.240000 1636.960000 that's commingled with that too. And that's kind of the new part that I'm having to work through and
1636.960000 1642.320000 confess and try to move on from to you is how do I confront not just the actual words that I'm saying,
1642.320000 1646.320000 but in my heart, how is self-righteousness playing a part of that?
1646.320000 1655.920000 Have you been able to have a conversation with a person in this case? And if so,
1657.680000 1660.000000 what positive things have come out of that?
1660.000000 1666.240000 Yeah, it's ongoing. I would say there's probably more conversations that need to happen
1666.240000 1674.960000 at the right time. But the difference between this situation and maybe some others in my life
1674.960000 1682.320000 previously is that there is a foundation of being fellow believers and being united in Christ.
1682.320000 1687.200000 And that goes back to the hope that you were talking about earlier. We have hope
1687.760000 1691.920000 not just in God's work in our own hearts and lives, but hope
1691.920000 1698.080000 for relationship with other people in our lives too. And I think that's the beautiful thing about
1698.080000 1704.480000 conviction is that when it's done among believers that there can be hope at the end.
1704.480000 1713.360000 Just a softer place to land. Yeah. We hope still can be messy. Yeah, it's still messy.
1713.360000 1719.680000 Doesn't always work out the way we wanted to. But you're right. There's a common goal,
1719.680000 1724.560000 which is insofar as it depends on you. I love a piece with all men.
1724.560000 1734.080000 Is there something you've been convicted about that has led to a positive impact in your life?
1734.080000 1739.360000 Yeah. So I had given this some thought ahead of time because I wrote this question.
1741.200000 1749.200000 And I decided that I would go back to my Facebook conviction that I spoke about on the last episode
1749.200000 1757.600000 because it has born fruit. So as I previously mentioned, difficult period in 2015
1757.600000 1765.520000 lost not only my husband, but five other family members in six months. It was pretty insane.
1767.600000 1774.000000 I was really sad, depressed, any of those things that would happen at that time.
1774.000000 1780.080000 And also lost my home. I lost a lot of other things too. So long story short, I spent a lot of time
1780.080000 1787.200000 on my Facebook because you know, that's what I was doing. Doom scrolling. So they say it didn't help me.
1787.200000 1794.800000 So I made the decision to stop. But when I did, I also decided that
1796.400000 1801.280000 the thing that I hated most about the Facebook, you were only brushing the surface of people's
1801.280000 1809.120000 life. I wanted a deeper connection. So whenever I ran into someone that I had used to be Facebook
1809.120000 1814.320000 friends with, I would, if they had the time, I would stop and pause right there. I remember in the
1814.320000 1821.680000 dairy aisle of the grocery store having a 10 minute heart to heart conversation with one of my friends
1822.800000 1826.640000 because he said to me, "What happened? Why are you not on Facebook anymore?" And I'm like, "Oh, well,
1826.640000 1833.360000 let me tell you. I want to really know how people are doing." So how are you really doing?
1833.360000 1838.880000 Not what you're posting. Not what's going on with your work. He was a writer. But what's really,
1838.880000 1845.200000 really happening? Tell me what's going on with your daughter. That sort of started this trend of me
1845.200000 1852.320000 being real with people. And then that led me to talk to people about my story.
1852.960000 1861.920000 Just in conversation, if it came up and the connections that I made, the way people felt seen and heard
1861.920000 1869.520000 and had the experience of, "Oh, I'm not the only one just fueled that desire to have deeper
1869.520000 1878.240000 conversations with people." And now here we are having deep conversations because I was tired of
1878.240000 1886.480000 living on the service. Pretty remarkable if you think about how you responded to that conviction
1886.480000 1895.600000 in all the ways that God has used that since then, ways you wouldn't have ever dreamt or imagined.
1895.600000 1905.520000 Would it have been scared to dream? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. What a story.
1907.200000 1914.320000 I think that's a pretty good note to end on. There is joy. There is blessing.
1914.320000 1923.120000 And there is peace that passes all understanding. Whatever situation you might be in now,
1923.120000 1931.440000 whether you can sit quietly with yourself or not, whether you can stand your own company or not.
1932.880000 1949.840000 There is hope. There is restoration. There is a savior who waits with open arms.
1949.840000 1962.400000 Hey y'all, Marybeth here. Sarah and I are so glad that you chose to listen to our podcast.
1962.720000 1968.320000 And while we think that we're awesome friends to have, we just wanted to clarify that we are not
1968.320000 1972.720000 mental health professionals and want you to know that this podcast should not take the place
1972.720000 1975.533813 of any paid professional advice.